Anthem snub

Can somebody explain to me what is wrong with Advance Australia Fair?
The lyrics just talk about the beauty of our country for a geographical standpoint, who can argue that we a girt by sea? It has no traces of colonialism or any message you could possibly construe to representative of one sect of society over another. I never fathomed it could be institutionalized as a construct for White Australia.

Are people over-awed with inspiration from Colin Kaepernick?
It just seems strange to turn a whole event organized to celebrate indigenous peoples into a protest about how our society is still lacking. Why not just ask to forego the anthem in the first place if they don't believe it represents them, rather than playing it just for the purpose of making a political statement.

Can anybody who leans more Left than I help me out?

I'm not against the anthem and I definitely prefer it to NZ asking God to defend us but I can see maybe a few lines that might offend indigenous people and others:

"We are young and free" to a people who don't consider themselves as free as the colonials.
"In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair" - imagery of Australia's history, of course is going to be painful for some.

The anthem also mentions the Commonwealth and boundless plains to share and again, I guess I could see how those may offend some people.

Again, I'm throwing darts out here and I'd love to hear from someone who is closer to the issue than I am.

If they want to make a stand on our anthem then no better stage. It obviously means something to them and maybe that can help others consider their POV. I'm a white fella and have always cringed at our anthem.  
Do we need words in our anthem??
A bit long maybe ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuH-Fm8NpI

More upbeat combining old and new here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq78sTf80qY

Is it ironic that a team that excludes white Australians is calling the anthem racist?

As filth said, its mainly the phrase "young and free" that causes issue

The original lyrics probably aren't a big hit either

When gallant Cook from Albion sailed,
To trace wide oceans o'er,
True British courage bore him on,
Til he landed on our shore.
Then here he raised Old England's flag,
The standard of the brave;
"With all her faults we love her still"
"Britannia rules the wave."
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia fair.

Firstly guys, thanks to you for replying. When I got 40 views with no replies I was worried that I had opened up a can of worms people were objectionable to talking about (and I was just the prized asshole for wanting to dive right in), but I was really very interested in the conversation.

filthridden wrote:I'm not against the anthem and I definitely prefer it to NZ asking God to defend us but I can see maybe a few lines that might offend indigenous people and others:

"We are young and free" to a people who don't consider themselves as free as the colonials.
"In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair" -  imagery of Australia's history, of course is going to be painful for some.

The anthem also mentions the Commonwealth and boundless plains to share and again, I guess I could see how those may offend some people.

Again, I'm throwing darts out here and I'd love to hear from someone who is closer to the issue than I am.

It's funny how subjective interpretation can be, I had always taken the "young and free" line to be talking about Australia itself rather than its citizens. Young because the 118 years we have been recognized as a country is incredibly short on the international stage; and free because we never passed through any totalitarian phases to get to where we are. I guess you could make an argument that even the 'young' part could offend indigenous peoples since they have been here longer than any current culture on the planet. As for the "In History's page, let every stage, Advance Australia Fair", I had assumed it was talking about the future, as in "let us make it so that history shows we are always striving for a better Australia", the intent may not have been there in 1978 when this was written, but in these modern times I think making a better future would have to be interpreted to include reconciliation and equal rights for all Australian peoples.

On the side, I actually think "God save the Queen" when sung in Maori is one of the more pleasant sounding anthems going. Maybe because I can't interpret the lyrics. I always enjoy hearing different nations anthems during Olympics and other sporting events, and I rate this version right up there (singer dependent of course).

Milchy wrote:
As filth said, its mainly the phrase "young and free" that causes issue

The original lyrics probably aren't a big hit either

When gallant Cook from Albion sailed,
To trace wide oceans o'er,
True British courage bore him on,
Til he landed on our shore.
Then here he raised Old England's flag,
The standard of the brave;
"With all her faults we love her still"
"Britannia rules the wave."
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia fair.

Ooo, I have no interpretation to excuse this one. I had never actually heard these lyrics before, very interesting. But I can definitely see how talking about Cook and the first flag raising would be a sore spot. Probably a good thing this section was cut. Britania rules the waves, yeesh. Fair point.

code delta wrote:If they want to make a stand on our anthem then no better stage. It obviously means something to them and maybe that can help others consider their POV. I'm a white fella and have always cringed at our anthem.  
Do we need words in our anthem??
A bit long maybe ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuH-Fm8NpI

More upbeat combining old and new here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq78sTf80qY

Uh.... I have to be frank and admit I think both of those are terrible choices for an Anthem. Will have to pass on a didgeridoo trance mix to represent us all thanks! But I will take two of whatever you are on! (Jks)
I am not completely opposed to your idea of changing the anthem if it offends that many people though. Just for some context of my place in this debate, I would not mind if they changed the date of Australia Day- the arrival of the first fleet is in no way sentimental to me (any moreso than, say, the day we officially became a nation) and is hardly steeped in tradition since it only became the national day in 1994. I am simply not passionate enough about it to care if it got changed to make everybody happy, and struggle to see how so many people are. The flag I think we have to keep, big ugly Union Jack and all- since Australians both white and indigenous died in war carrying this flag and I am patriotic enough to respect that. The anthem I am ambivalent on, but I personally have always liked Advance Australia Fair (maybe because I never heard Milchy's removed lyrics!).

I think what upsets me most about the protesting of the anthem is that they are taking a symbol which many feel a deep patriotism for and twist it into a political tool. It is the soft-core version of flag burning. As I said above, I would have completely respected them if they decided NOT to play the anthem at all, but knowing that at some stage they would have all got together and decided to play it and disrespect it publicly is what irks me. I lean Left and am sympathetic with the plight of indigenous peoples, but it is not impossible to do so without being patriotic also. It upsets me to see something I put value in being used in that way. Even worse, disrespecting something I put value in because they are acutely aware of the fact that it will upset me is a pretty malicious move. Of course the counter-point to that is that this is the exact point of this protest, using my sentiments to gain shock value and do something people will talk about. But how can reconciliation and understanding between peoples ever happen when you are coming from a point of such animosity? Making an effort to show me that you do not care about my beliefs in an effort to make me care about yours is not the way to find a common ground.

I hate our anthem. It's origins are from an outdated disgusting time...
It needs to change to be inclusive and to actually recognise Australia's first people.

Yothu Yindi

Treaty Yeh

Problem solved

Bring back "God save the Queen"

No Worries wrote:Bring back "God save the Queen"

Bring that back, and then in a few year we can change it again (to God Save the King)

No Worries wrote:Bring back "God save the Queen"

Still Call Australia Home. Change the first verse that name checks other cities to something else and write the new bits in indigenous language.

Pens down.

MrCashman wrote:Yothu Yindi

Treaty Yeh

Problem solved

Can I vote for Djapana instead? Always reminds me of Reckless Kelly. Can that whole movie be Australia's national anthem?

My political stance. I actually don't think the national anthem is too bad (it's not supposed to be a chart topping tune) but see when pointed out that some words might be seen as offensive to some, and more importantly it symbolises a era which some might find offensive. I also think Australia Day could be "done" a bit better so it is more celebratory of our pre-1788 history, but again that might be a bridge too far for a very major part of our history.

To me, the solution that fits perfectly with my political idealogy, is for Australia to become independent. We can then use that to have the perfect opportunity and excuse to have a fresh start with a lot of symbolic things such as national anthem, national day and flag and change them all to something really inclusive of our heritage, and not represent a small country about the size of Victoria that really isn't the heritage of most of our population these days.

As for the indigenous team not singing, so bloody what as far as I'm concerned. I defend everyone's right to make a protest, and just like the Kapernick issue, I find it baffling that opponents who typically say things like "It's not appropriate to have violent demonstrations and protests" somehow still find a way to complain about a non-disruptive, non-violent protest such as not singing the national anthem. FFS, just admit that you don't like any protest against things you don't like. We saw the same thing with the same sex vote.

And Jesus, when it comes to the national anthem, public polls etc started in the mid 70's, and it was officially proclaimed the national anthem in 1984. I remember when I was in high school in the early 90's, if I was at something where it was sung, basically only school children knew the words, so it wasn't that long ago it really can't have had that much meaning to the majority of people. I reckon probably less than 10% of the population would know the words to the second verse, and most probably don't even know there's a second verse.

Dip wrote:To me, the solution that fits perfectly with my political idealogy, is for Australia to become independent. We can then use that to have the perfect opportunity and excuse to have a fresh start with a lot of symbolic things such as national anthem, national day and flag and change them all to something really inclusive of our heritage, and not represent a small country about the size of Victoria that really isn't the heritage of most of our population these days.

Yep. Fuck the Queen off and get a new flag, new anthem, new Aus day.

The silent stat behind "how many people care about an issue" is usually how much they care about it. Be interesting to know how many people actually thought it was a national disgrace?

I don't think it'll cause big waves. It's a bit hard to pick a fight with non-indigenous Aussies when most of them don't give a toss about the anthem anyway!

Essentially, what Dip said.

And personally I'd take a leaf from the book of our backward, sheep-rooting cousins from across the dutch (not the sheep-rooting bit) and do an Indigenous verse and and English verse - as theirs is probably on of my favourite anthems.

Otherwise I'd also take I am Australian by the Seekers.

Wasn't the anthem chosen by a vote in the 70's? I much prefer the Kiwi anthem but it wouldn't work here due to the number of indigenous dialects.

Krump wrote:Wasn't the anthem chosen by a vote in the 70's? I much prefer the Kiwi anthem but it wouldn't work here due to the number of indigenous dialects.

It was actually an interesting read the history of the anthem. Basically in the 70's if labour was in power they would have a vote and make it Advance Australia Fair, then the libs would get voted in and change it back to God Save the Queen, then Hawke finalised it in 84.

Krump wrote:Wasn't the anthem chosen by a vote in the 70's? I much prefer the Kiwi anthem but it wouldn't work here due to the number of indigenous dialects.

You could work around that - use the local dialect from the area where Captain Cook landed. Use the dialect from Canberra, as the National Capital. Use the dialect from wherever the first colony was established. Use whatever dialect is most in use in modern day. Use the dialect from the area Lang Park sits because 8 in a row cunts, never forget.

Many options.