2019 NIB Knights

bluetige wrote:
I don't fully understand what you mean.

All I will add to my original comment is clubs such as the Tigers, Knights, Raiders, Warriors, Panthers are great nurseries but the clubs aren't exactly successful, whereas Roosters, Storm, Sea Eagles don't have a large nursery but are hugely successful.

Time for the NRL to turn the tides I reckon

I read your comment to mean that clubs shouldn't get advantaged by being inviting to TPA's, and basically suggesting that TPA's should be included in the salary cap. I think clubs should be rewarded for creating a brand that invites investors into our game, so don't have a problem with TPA's. I think players should also get a share of licensed merchandise attributable to them, which is what I think the NFL does. If someone wants to buy a Josh McGuire 13 Broncos jersey, or a Jarryd Hayne 1 NSW jersey, I think the player should get a percentage of that. If that means James Moloney gets more from his Cronulla jersey sales than Paul Gallen or Ben Barba because people like him more, that's fine with me.

I don't understand the "turn the tides" comment, because it makes out that you can't be successful if you have a large nursery. There are clubs that have been successful with a good nursery, such as Brisbane (isn't the traditional complaint that "the Broncos have the whole of Queensland to pick from"), Canterbury, and more recently the Cowboys and Rabbits. Perhaps the reason the clubs you mentioned (through Parra in there as well) has nothing to do with TPA's or nurseries, but is due to other reasons.

I see. Clubs should not be advantaged as much as they currently are would be more to the point. Clubs are not getting TPA's because of the brand of footy they play its because of location and some CEO's have better contacts. The fairer way would be for the NRL (not clubs) to handle all TPA's but they seem too lazy and are happy with the unfair status quo. 

Players getting a slice of the merchandising pie is a pinch of salt in the ocean and I'd be fine with what you say but how would you police sales for someone switching jersey numbers every week.

I said turn the tides because I am sick of seeing teams like Melbourne, Manly, Roosters, Brisbane continually have prolonged success whereas teams like Newcastle, Canberra, Tigers spend more time watching September footy on TV, and when they get an influx of good juniors come through that should lead to success, other clubs pillage and rape their talent so they can't improve. 

These clubs don't even need to buy players, but they do just for the sake of it and can do so by offering better TPA's. The Salary Cap is supposed to even the talent (and stop clubs form over spending and going broke) but if you compare rosters between successful teams and struggling teams, ask yourself how is this even.

Who do you support Dip?

I'm a Broncos supporter, so it's easy for me to say something nice we have the best TPA's and probably the best nursery. Not necessarily pointing the finger but I think some supporters look for any excuse for their team's lack of success, regardless of whether it's a real factor or not. Certainly the Storm and Sea Eagles, and to a lesser extent the Roosters while not having a big junior base, are able to find talent, and turn players into better players. How often do see players are better at the Storm than other clubs either before or after their time there. That has nothing to do with TPA's.

Was Canberra's downfall in the late 90's, Newcastles in the late 00's or Penrith in the mid 00's and mid 90's due to TOA's?

Dip wrote:I'm a Broncos supporter, so it's easy for me to say something nice we have the best TPA's and probably the best nursery. Not necessarily pointing the finger but I think some supporters look for any excuse for their team's lack of success, regardless of whether it's a real factor or not. Certainly the Storm and Sea Eagles, and to a lesser extent the Roosters while not having a big junior base, are able to find talent, and turn players into better players. How often do see players are better at the Storm than other clubs either before or after their time there. That has nothing to do with TPA's.

Was Canberra's downfall in the late 90's, Newcastles in the late 00's or Penrith in the mid 00's and mid 90's due to TOA's?

I can't come at this myth that says Bellamy makes players better and he works magic with players nobody elsewhere wants. Players that are ok at one club but are all of a sudden better at the Storm are better cause they are playing with Smith, Cronk and Slater. Put those 3 in the same jersey at any of the other 15 Clubs over the past 10 years and that club and these so called flops that flourish at the Storm, would have done just as well. If Cheyse Blair left the Storm he'd still be the same player, but he'd be surrounded by a weaker spine so his performances would look more shit week in week out.

Dip wrote:I'm a Broncos supporter, so it's easy for me to say something nice we have the best TPA's and probably the best nursery. Not necessarily pointing the finger but I think some supporters look for any excuse for their team's lack of success, regardless of whether it's a real factor or not. Certainly the Storm and Sea Eagles, and to a lesser extent the Roosters while not having a big junior base, are able to find talent, and turn players into better players. How often do see players are better at the Storm than other clubs either before or after their time there. That has nothing to do with TPA's.

Was Canberra's downfall in the late 90's, Newcastles in the late 00's or Penrith in the mid 00's and mid 90's due to TOA's?

I can see why you don't mind TPA's. The Broncos do manage to get players on unders just to play with a successful team and possibly win a premiership. Apart from watching the Broncs on TV every Friday night, the thing that pisses me off about them is they feel the need to poach other clubs when they have 1 of they best nurseries around and shouldn't need to look elsewhere and TPA's allow them to do it. Prime example it Jack Bird. Do you really think they needed him. Similar to Bulldogs, did they really need Woods with Graham, Tolman, Klemmer, Kasiano.

I as a Tigers supporter don't need to find excuses for the lack of success. Yes our front office is shambles but we are always behind our rich rivals. Poor Newcastles front office seems to be in good working order but their having massive problems becoming competitive. They are going to rely on juniors but wait until these juniors are in their prime and get poached. Coach Brown stated they are not in a position to outbid clubs with more/richer TPA's

TPA's are to the detriment of a fair competition

Ice wrote:

I can't come at this myth that says Bellamy makes players better and he works magic with players nobody elsewhere wants. Players that are ok at one club but are all of a sudden better at the Storm are better cause they are playing with Smith, Cronk and Slater. Put those 3 in the same jersey at any of the other 15 Clubs over the past 10 years and that club and these so called flops that flourish at the Storm, would have done just as well. If Cheyse Blair left the Storm he'd still be the same player, but he'd be surrounded by a weaker spine so his performances would look more shit week in week out.

Maybe, but Smith, Cronk and Slater didn't grow up in Essendon wanting to play for the Storm. They were discovered by, signed and developed by Melbourne, so the club is still doing something right there that isn't in relation to TPA's. And I'm not attributing all credit to Bellamy, there is a range of things they do well, and for a while illegally. Bellamy's a big part. So are the big 3 now, so are quite a few other things.

And if you look at Manly, the most successful club in the last 10 years, it's the same thing without any big 3. Brett Kite was nothing special with St George. Josh Perry made rep teams after he left Andrew John's team.

Your club in a past era is a perfect example. At some point in the mid 80's you'd say they had the best nursery, and because everyone wanted to be associated with them, probably access to the biggest corporate support and resources. Add in a brand new stadium as well. The reason for Parra's lack of success in the last 30 years has nothing to do with the Bronco's or Rooster's TPA's. That's overly simplistic, and in my opinion, just wrong.

bluetige wrote:
I can see why you don't mind TPA's. The Broncos do manage to get players on unders just to play with a successful team and possibly win a premiership. Apart from watching the Broncs on TV every Friday night, the thing that pisses me off about them is they feel the need to poach other clubs when they have 1 of they best nurseries around and shouldn't need to look elsewhere and TPA's allow them to do it. Prime example it Jack Bird. Do you really think they needed him. Similar to Bulldogs, did they really need Woods with Graham, Tolman, Klemmer, Kasiano.

I as a Tigers supporter don't need to find excuses for the lack of success. Yes our front office is shambles but we are always behind our rich rivals. Poor Newcastles front office seems to be in good working order but their having massive problems becoming competitive. They are going to rely on juniors but wait until these juniors are in their prime and get poached. Coach Brown stated they are not in a position to outbid clubs with more/richer TPA's

TPA's are to the detriment of a fair competition

Ok. We're obviously sitting on different sides of the fence, which is one of the great things about NRL supporters. I will say though, that I'd expect the Broncos probably sign less people from other clubs, and have more contracted players sign with other clubs (or at least the net position of the two) than any other club. So it seems very unfair to criticise us for the odd signing, such as Bird to play in the halves when it happens after the Titans signed Taylor and Hoffman, Dragons signed Hunt, Parra signed Norman etc. (Which I also have no problem with). That's 4 players off the top of my head that debuted and regularly played in the halves for us that are playing elsewhere in the NRL - two of whom are internationals, and two of them are highly regarded as future origin players. Is there any wonder we've signed a couple of halves from other clubs?

Oz Sport Mad wrote:

Why would you assume he has signed with Souths for more than his current contract?

Because its souths, not the majestic broncos

Dip wrote:

Ok. We're obviously sitting on different sides of the fence, which is one of the great things about NRL supporters. I will say though, that I'd expect the Broncos probably sign less people from other clubs, and have more contracted players sign with other clubs (or at least the net position of the two) than any other club. So it seems very unfair to criticise us for the odd signing, such as Bird to play in the halves when it happens after the Titans signed Taylor and Hoffman, Dragons signed Hunt, Parra signed Norman etc. (Which I also have no problem with). That's 4 players off the top of my head that debuted and regularly played in the halves for us that are playing elsewhere in the NRL - two of whom are internationals, and two of them are highly regarded as future origin players. Is there any wonder we've signed a couple of halves from other clubs?

Its more about the quality of the player that the "Rich" clubs poach from the "poor" clubs.
Pretty much every single brilliant young player that comes through is poached by a glamour club.

It is different when a young guy leaves to get a gig somewhere else because he is behind a few guns too mate.

Its just a shame is all - TPA's fuck some clubs over and they literally defeat the purpose of having a salary cap. They benefit the rich clubs and hinder the growth of the struggling clubs.


You cant compare Era's either because the rules were different too @dip

Smith Cronk and Slater were not wanted by the bronco's so they left for the opportunity. They established first graders that got poached by melbourne.

2007 - No premiers
2008 - Manly
2009 - No premiers
2010 - Dragons
2011 - Manly
2012 - Storm
2013 - Roosters
2014 - Rabbits
2015 - Cowboys
2016 - Sharks

How many of these premiers of the last 10 years have done it because their club had unfair TPA advantages? Roosters with SBW and Rabbits with Burgess and Inglis maybe? That's 20% of those years. Hardly ruining the competition or it's integrity. In fact between Manly, the Cowboys and Sharks, I'd say at least 40% of those years were won by clubs that had lower TPA's than the NRL average, including the last 2. Dragons and Storm are probably somewhere in the middle I'd guess.

Pieman wrote:

Its more about the quality of the player that the "Rich" clubs poach from the "poor" clubs.
Pretty much every single brilliant young player that comes through is poached by a glamour club.

State of Origin or Tier 1 Nation squad players poached for 2018:
Broncos - Bird
Warriors - Harris
Dragons - Hunt
Dogs - Foran, Woods
Roosters - Tedesco
Tigers - Reynolds, McQueen, Matulino, Packer
Cowboys - McLean

Higher Profile youngsters poached for 2018:
Knights - Ponga
Eels - Evans, Moses

Sure, there is a difference in the quality in some of those players, but generally speaking, I think that movement is reasonably even between rich clubs and poor clubs. The way some of you guys make out, only the Broncos, Roosters and Dogs sign anyone.

Dip wrote:

State of Origin or Tier 1 Nation squad players poached for 2018:
Broncos - Bird
Warriors - Harris
Dragons - Hunt
Dogs - Foran, Woods
Roosters - Tedesco
Tigers - Reynolds, McQueen, Matulino, Packer
Cowboys - McLean

Higher Profile youngsters poached for 2018:
Knights - Ponga
Eels - Evans, Moses

Sure, there is a difference in the quality in some of those players, but generally speaking, I think that movement is reasonably even between rich clubs and poor clubs. The way some of you guys make out, only the Broncos, Roosters and Dogs sign anyone.

Mate the Tigers, Warriors, Dragons, Knights and eels have all payed overs to attract players.
The dogs are a weird one, adding another prop to a prop heavy team.I reckon Mclean will end up being another - looks awesome playing with smith/slater/cronk (does he even???) average at another side sort of guy.
The Dogs, Broncos, Roosters all poached elite talent established first graders. I am not saying they shouldnt be allowed to buy players, but fuck, those 'elite' sides (especially with the bronco's and bulldogs) have awesome grassroots comps.
A side like newcastle does too, but all the best players get poached by the richer clubs and a side like newcastle cant compete with the money being thrown at youngsters.

When did the rules change for TPA's?? It use to be capped, or you were only allowed a certain amount.

I'd suggest the reason guys like Teddy, Woods, and Gagai (rumoured) have left isn't because of higher money available through TPA's, but because they're sick of working for basket case organisations and want to work for an organisation which is run better. I'd personally be surprised if the offer for any of those 3 (including TPA's) is significantly higher than the offers that were made by their current clubs

Dip wrote:I'd suggest the reason guys like Teddy, Woods, and Gagai (rumoured) have left isn't because of higher money available through TPA's, but because they're sick of working for basket case organisations and want to work for an organisation which is run better. I'd personally be surprised if the offer for any of those 3 (including TPA's) is  significantly higher than the offers that were made by their current clubs  

Who knows.
What I do know is that the Roosters get who they want, and that usually means paying out the ass for them whether its thru the cap or tpa or whatever. So I would guess that Ted is not earning any less than what he was at the tigers.

Sure. some guys leave because they want to play at a side that wins, but It would shock me if those guys are on less than what they were on at their original clubs.

Dip wrote:

Maybe, but Smith, Cronk and Slater didn't grow up in Essendon wanting to play for the Storm. They were discovered by, signed and developed by Melbourne, so the club is still doing something right there that isn't in relation to TPA's. And I'm not attributing all credit to Bellamy, there is a range of things they do well, and for a while illegally. Bellamy's a big part. So are the big 3 now, so are quite a few other things.

And if you look at Manly, the most successful club in the last 10 years, it's the same thing without any big 3. Brett Kite was nothing special with St George. Josh Perry made rep teams after he left Andrew John's team.

Your club in a past era is a perfect example. At some point in the mid 80's you'd say they had the best nursery, and because everyone wanted to be associated with them, probably access to the biggest corporate support and resources. Add in a brand new stadium as well. The reason for Parra's lack of success in the last 30 years has nothing to do with the Bronco's or Rooster's TPA's. That's overly simplistic, and in my opinion, just wrong.

Totally agree with that last sentence.

Dip wrote:

Ok. We're obviously sitting on different sides of the fence, which is one of the great things about NRL supporters. I will say though, that I'd expect the Broncos probably sign less people from other clubs, and have more contracted players sign with other clubs (or at least the net position of the two) than any other club. So it seems very unfair to criticise us for the odd signing, such as Bird to play in the halves when it happens after the Titans signed Taylor and Hoffman, Dragons signed Hunt, Parra signed Norman etc. (Which I also have no problem with). That's 4 players off the top of my head that debuted and regularly played in the halves for us that are playing elsewhere in the NRL - two of whom are internationals, and two of them are highly regarded as future origin players. Is there any wonder we've signed a couple of halves from other clubs?

The Broncos are a one team town with a huge nursery. They simply can't keep all the talent that might be NRL quality in their squad. That said I don't begrudge them signing players, up the reality is, it provides them a significant advantage and it is a big part of the reason they are so successful.

Dip wrote:2007 - No premiers
2008 - Manly
2009 - No premiers
2010 - Dragons
2011 - Manly
2012 - Storm
2013 - Roosters
2014 - Rabbits
2015 - Cowboys
2016 - Sharks

How many of these premiers of the last 10 years have done it because their club had unfair TPA advantages? Roosters with SBW and Rabbits with Burgess and Inglis maybe? That's 20% of those years. Hardly ruining the competition or it's integrity. In fact between Manly, the Cowboys and Sharks, I'd say at least 40% of those years were won by clubs that had lower TPA's than the NRL average, including the last 2. Dragons and Storm are probably somewhere in the middle I'd guess.

Eels the rightful 2009 premiers, we all know it

Dip wrote:

State of Origin or Tier 1 Nation squad players poached for 2018:
Broncos - Bird
Warriors - Harris
Dragons - Hunt
Dogs - Foran, Woods
Roosters - Tedesco
Tigers - Reynolds, McQueen, Matulino, Packer
Cowboys - McLean

Higher Profile youngsters poached for 2018:
Knights - Ponga
Eels - Evans, Moses

Sure, there is a difference in the quality in some of those players, but generally speaking, I think that movement is reasonably even between rich clubs and poor clubs. The way some of you guys make out, only the Broncos, Roosters and Dogs sign anyone.

Evans is a Tigers Junior and Moses is an Eels junior. So Evans was previously poached by the Roosters and was the first casualty in the Tedesco signing. Moses was unwanted and was keen to link with his junior side, hardly a poaching.

Bird was highly sought after by the Knights and the Sharks wanted to retain him.

Tedesco and Woods. Both elite players wanted by existing Club. Reynolds was basically free to walk because Foran wanted to return to Sydney so the Eels screwed there, so to the warriors and the Dogs benefit.

Hunt not wanted, we all know if Bennett wanted to keep him he would have, when was the last time he lost a player he wanted to retain.

Ice wrote:

Hunt not wanted, we all know if Bennett wanted to keep him he would have, when was the last time he lost a player he wanted to retain.

Justin Hodges?

Turns out he should have kept Jarrod Wallace and Ash taylor too