NRLFF Survivor Season 2 - Part 3

A couple of wonderful pitches! Cheers for the kind words from both too. Gonna be a tough call.

wolfking wrote:A couple of wonderful pitches!  Cheers for the kind words from both too.  Gonna be a tough call.

those backstabbing b*stards are just trying to butter you up

Chewie wrote:When is a good time to start confessing all the backstabbing shenanigans? Like how I put Random's name down for one tribal just to stir things up, and yes I did the same with Rabbits21 a few times...

Pretty sure you did that in season 1 too lol.

I’ll just post mine here seeing as it’s getting late and tomorrow is Wednesday well done to both of you great pitches.

I remember early on when I felt Marlin was playing both sides and I chose to go with Random and Moana. On that vote JM played his idol was the night I was trying to send him home because he was such a threat. I pushed that the further he went in the game the more dangerous he would become and likely win it. So yeah massive play by JM it was. Once again at merge I pushed for JM to go once again no one wanted to do it. After JM knew I’d tried to vote him off he extended an olive branch to help one another move forward this was fine social play and felt genuine.

ET my question to you is you knew I flipped on Random, Moanaman etc at merge as I felt I had to take the risk the numbers were not in my favour. I then helped you to still safely have numbers and I felt there was much bigger threats than me left in the game. Why did you take me out when you did when I was not really a threat and you could’ve made a bigger move and got a big name out to better your resume. To me it feels like you coasted along after merge. What I would like to know is what was your wow move your biggest move post merge that screams vote for you that you deserve it more than JM and how was your social game better than Marlins?

Marlin also what was your wow move post merge that you own that screams vote for you? Also how was your social game better than ET?

Chewie wrote:When is a good time to start confessing all the backstabbing shenanigans? Like how I put Random's name down for one tribal just to stir things up, and yes I did the same with Rabbits21 a few times...

If you hadn't done that and followed the plan, we wouldn't have wasted weeks deciding if it was you or Marlin that was the spy and the end result of this game might have been quite different

Moanaman wrote:

If you hadn't done that and followed the plan, we wouldn't have wasted weeks deciding if it was you or Marlin that was the spy and the end result of this game might have been quite different

I guess the truth is that it was both JM and myself sharing the bed with ET, feeding him info about all that was happening in our tribe.

Oh and I may have fed info about our tribe to Welshy, Chuck and Milchcow as well

I’ll wait until tonight for the last few questions. If they don’t come in I’ll send the rest of what I have to JM and ET. The questions and answers will be available by tomorrow and then votes can be sent in anytime after that. I will then read out the votes at 6:00pm Friday AEST. Remember you are voting for who you think should win.

Chewie wrote:Oh and I may have fed info about our tribe to Welshy, Chuck and Milchcow as well

Funnily enough that is what started the demise of chucky/welshy.

Hi Members of the Jury,

While we await the final questions, ET and I thought we'd start to create some content by staring to submit some of our replies. Here's my first few.

Cheers

JM

Cunbert - coming back from successfully using an idol is impressive. What do you feel worst about all series?

Hey Cunbert,

Thanks. There are a few things that I feel bad about.

1. At the back end of Cheese, I misled some of our then alliance. It really didn’t sit comfortable with me and I stressed over this probably too much. Shortly afterwards when Moana made his way back in, I was more direct in telling him I wasn’t voting for him.

2. There are a few players I really really wanted to play with in an alliance. Not being able to align with everyone I wanted too sucks.

3. You were one of them - but not for the reason you might think. As you articulated at the time, if I had let you know about my idol, we could have joined together and held three idols between us. We could have created some mayhem. Certainly the game would have played out differently. But looking back, I don’t regret it too much. I decided to pick one player to let know I had the idol and Chewie’s out of the blue DM was worded in a compelling way to make it him. The reason I wanted to align with you again after merge, and I do regret the cards didn’t fall to make that happen, is I loved playing with you and I loved how you played the game. You were sincere, open and fun in challenges, and as far as I could tell trustworthy.

4. Not taking B/L to the finale. From my perspective, B/L is survivor, and for him to be so close was harsh. I anguished about this for days.

Milchcow - What made you think that Easy Tiger was more beatable than B/L in the final tribal? What is it that will cause people to vote for you ahead of him that may not apply if you were against B/L?

Hey Michcow,

From my perspective, I found it very hard to differentiate between ET and B/L purely on who would get votes. It was clear they were tight all game, and my view was that they could both tell a similar and compelling story. A few thoughts I had about B/L were:

If you had of asked me at the start whether B/L would make final three, I would have said next to no chance. As the previous LaPaglia, I thought he’d be in trouble. That he pulled it off I think is probably the effort of the season.

There was also a hint I picked up when ET wrote in a very short final 3 post that he especially appreciated B/L. Given the amount of time ET and I had been together (ET told me yesterday it was a 209 day alliance), the wording struck me immediately. I took it that B/L had been a massive help for ET and could likely come to tribal with a strong story that he was THE man.

So, I think these above are some good reasons why people might vote for me over ET, that may not apply over B/L.

So while I think B/L would have been formidable, it would be disingenuous to say that my early connection with ET that I outlined in my pitch played a pretty strong part in my decision. If I didn’t take ET, I would have felt inauthentic to myself (and my answer to Cunbert above would have been that I did not bring ET to final 2).

Wolking - JM, you seemingly have stayed 100% loyal to the alliance the whole game to get to where you are.  Was there ever any thought from you to aim for a blindside the last couple of rounds?  I personally don't see you being taken to the finale if you didn't win the challenge.  Thoughts? Do you think you maybe took the easy route to get to the finale?

Hey Wolfie,

I think you will find a few people from Cheese who didn’t think I was loyal the entire game, and I would say I had three alliance during the game.  But at core, I did stick with ET from go to whoa, so in that respect you are right.  

I certainly contemplated a blindside, but whichever way I cut it, the numbers kept stacking up to stay loyal.  I understood that could hurt me at final 2, but I felt the jury could see through to what was happening.  Moana made a comment that I was the puppet for B/L and ET.  But if you look carefully enough at how the game played out after merge, I think you could conclude that B/L and ET became my puppets.  I kept getting what I wanted, and they kept doing the hard work for me thinking they were getting what they wanted   .   (I underlined this as I think it's somewhat of a cheeky representation of my pitch).

A chink in my armour of this strategy was what would happen if I didn’t win the last challenge.  I almost agree with you that I needed to win.  People give themselves up with words and both ET and B/L had only ever said ‘final 3”.  ET was subtle at dodging when I told him I suggested final 2, but not subtle enough.  His response of “It’d be great to have two Tigers fans as final 2” was enough for me to know I was his final 3 plan but he was not committing to final 2 plan.  

So, I did go into final three with a view I had to win the challenge.  Perhaps this is from la la land, but for the last 3-4 weeks I had a strong sense I would win the last challenge and I decided to back myself.  And so it proved.  Not even close enough for FS to reveal the results of the last challenge (where, by the way,  I believe I pulled away even further).

As to whether B/L or ET would have taken me?  I was not sure then and am not sure now.  On the balance of probabilities, I suspect you may be right.  But, I also thought they underestimated my game, and may have seen me as an easier win.  So, I don’t think it was necessarily a foregone conclusion.

[PS:  The person I most wanted to blindside was you, purely out of respect!].

Rabbits21:  Marlin also what was your wow move post merge that you own that screams vote for you? Also how was your social game better than ET?.  

Hey Rabbits21,

You are right that when I extended an olive branch I was being genuine.  [And Chewie's confession in the thread above has finally revealed who the heck was feeding you lies about me. Damn you Chewie!!]

As you know we had a running agreement that we would tell each other if we were in danger.  The night you were voted off, you sent me a DM saying “I’m hearing your name is being thrown around”.  At the same time, I was receiving screen shots from others that showed you were the one who was throwing my name around as a threat.  That was pretty classic.  I do love your chutzpah!  

In terms of my wow move, I won’t refer to a single elimination.  The order of who went when was not of great concern to me.  The wow is that, after much scrapping & fighting pre merge, I set myself up for what turned out to be a surprisingly stress free run from merge to final.  

As to how my social game was better than ETs?  This is hard to assess because I’m not privy to all of ETs social game.  As you can tell from his pitch, he worked very hard at this.  Plus, he’s a quality gent who is very likeable (a story for another day perhaps, but the reason I picked ET as my first port of call at the start of the game was because last year he spoke out to support me on the forum when I had spoken out to support you on the forum.)  In truth, I didn’t build relationships with every player, and there are some of the jury where our connections were somewhat fleeting, who will no doubt have had a better social experience with ET.  If I focus on my game, I was happy with the relationships I built and I made efforts with quite a few players like your good self.  I certainly  could not have made it to the end without the effort I put into the social game.

Rabbits21: ET my question to you is you knew I flipped on Random, Moanaman etc at merge as I felt I had to take the risk the numbers were not in my favour. I then helped you to still safely have numbers and I felt there was much bigger threats than me left in the game. Why did you take me out when you did when I was not really a threat and you could've made a bigger move and got a big name out to better your resume. To me it feels like you coasted along after merge. What I would like to know is what was your wow move your biggest move post merge that screams vote for you that you deserve it more than JM and how was your social game better than Marlins?

Hi Rabbits,
Your question actually hints at the answer.
There were 13 players at the merge. Seven of which I knew I could reliably count on (Me, BL, Wolfie, JM, Stu, Teeth and Papa). We had the numbers, and that's why you came with us; "I felt I had to take the risk the numbers were not in my favour".
The first three votes saw Moanaman, Random and Milch go. That left ten players; my alliance of seven, Chewie, Cunbert and yourself. I felt that Chewie & Cunbert had at least one idol, and I knew with certainty that you did not.

That week FalconSloth decided to do a double-elimination - he actively wanted to break my alliance and effectively sent out an open invitation to anyone at the bottom of our alliance to make a big move. I talked to everyone in my alliance, and I got the sense that no one was actively looking to jump... yet...

So comparatively, you had been with us for 3 weeks because you felt you had no choice. The other six of my alliance had chosen to work with me for 12+ weeks.

I had to squeeze Chewie, Cunbert and yourself into two votes. If there were still two idols in play, Chewie & Cunbert could play both and own the vote.
Putting your name up was very palatable - I can't speak of other players' reasonings for wanting to vote you, but it was inevitable that some players in my alliance would start to get itchy feet. Providing those players with a name they are already keen to remove was the smart play - it kept my alliance settled and content, kept me in control of the vote, and progressed my game another week forward.
At least that should've been the case, but that week Chewie & Cunbert knew who to play an idol on.

I also would say that despite your feelings to the contrary, you were a threat. Maybe not immediately, but you were playing a social game on both sides, which would have positioned you in the middle and in a position to be a powerful swing voter. I also knew with two idols in the game, and there would be upcoming votes requiring absolute discretion (or they'd risk blowing things apart).
Knowing you were talking to both sides and relying on you in my alliance threatened my ability to manage the vote and control the flow of information; hence you were a threat to my game.

I can absolutely and unequivocably state that I never coasted in this game. Anyone in my alliance would probably have a fair idea of how hard I worked in Survivor - everything I achieved I had to work hard for.

To prevent repeating myself, I will detail my biggest post-merge move in answer to Cunberts question.

How was my social game better than Marlins?
I can only speak of Marlins social game with me so I'm not in a position to compare.
What I will say of my social game is that I had strong connections with multiple players in multiple
places throughout the game.

As someone who has watched close to 40 seasons of Survivor, the most difficult place to survive long-term is as the "head of the snake" - in taking that role you are the primary threat to everyone.
I can only recall two instances where a power duo managed to lead an alliance from the start to the final 3.
The only way you can do it is by having the social game where you continually get enough information to subvert any attempts to take you down while keeping everyone in your alliance safe, valued and happy.
That sounds simple, but you are dealing with a diverse range of personalities, and every person on that jury is a competitor - they play fantasy because, at their core, they like to compete and they're driven to win.

The reason why JM didn't receive any votes post-merge, is because he was under my umbrella. Several times, he could've been the vote - you alone for instance, suggested him pretty much every tribal we liaised.
The strength of my social game is probably as simple as the fact that I enjoyed valuing the people in my alliance because I genuinely liked the people in my alliance.

Wolfking: You did a lot of work behind the scenes from what I saw and have certainly earned your spot in the final two. Anything you wish you did differently?
You also seemed to have the loyal backing of your alliance, did you count on that as the game went on or did most things fall in place once the work was put in?

Hi Wolfie,
They're two interesting questions.

I did put a lot of work into the game.
When FS announced that he would run Survivor this year, I was hesitant initially; I didn't want to commit if I couldn't do justice to the game. When he mentioned it needed 20 minutes a week, I thought, "I can do that" - most of the season required hours and hours each week. It wasn't bad, most of the time, it was like hanging out with mates, but organising votes could be a real challenge in conjunction with balancing the demands of real life.

There isn't anything that springs to mind that I would do differently. I genuinely think I didn't leave anything in the tank, so without the benefit of hindsight, what could I do differently?
There are moments I wish I'd made better assessments and followed them with better decisions - the tribal that saw an idol take you out, for instance. Everyone in my alliance seemed content heading into that vote, but my alarm bells were going off, and I wanted to change up the vote late. It was a tough week in RL, I found myself with limited and erratic time to organise the vote, and so I told myself it wasn't the time to overreact; it was a time to keep a calm head.
If circumstances were different, I like to imagine I could've prevented that twist.

I had an incredibly loyal alliance but also a very close partnership with some brilliant survivor minds, especially in B/L (Fantasy Survivors creator) and yourself (2nd in S1) and while we didn't talk strategy as much, I also had a strong partnership with another great player from season one in JM (4th).
From the moment you and I formed a close alliance (following the Chucky blindside), there was never a moment that I considered blindsiding any of you.
However, I know great Survivor players make great Survivor plays, so I never took for granted the people I was closest to. Equally, I never took for granted the people further down the food chain - every single week, I had to re-earn everything.

I made sure that I always had enough information, enough active connections to get wind of any move against me.
I said in my opening speech that there was only one tribal where I received votes - I know that it wasn't the only time that there was an attempt to get numbers against me. Still, every time I had done enough in my relationships to make a vote against me a tough sell, or I followed it with the right moves to avert the play.

The other thing I'd quickly add is that I generally avoided talk of final two or final threes or anything too far ahead.
Of course, I had an idea of how I'd like the end to look, but I always kept my focus on the current week, the upcoming tribal and an eye on how that sets up the next week and the next tribal.
I never got ahead of myself. I never disrespected the other competitors, what they were capable of or what FalconSloth might engineer to alter the game's direction. I was fluid in my thinking, adapted where I needed to, and always tried to be a few steps ahead of the game.

Milchcow - At some point you've had some sort of alliance with almost everyone on the jury. Are you concerned about any of them feeling resentment about you not taking them all the way, and voting against you in retaliation?

Hi Milch,
To be honest, my greatest concern is more about the decisions I made and how they align with my own values system.
It's a tough one. On the one hand, it's easy to say you can separate the game from the relationships, but it's murkier than that because you are dealing with real people and real feelings and to survive in the game there is a crossover between the two.

My perspective is that when I entered the game, I was under no illusion that 22 out of 24 players would get voted out - some would, of course, be blindsides.
If I wasn't prepared to be voted out or blindsided, I shouldn't involve myself in the game.

Part of me expected to be blindsided, in some way, I probably had a morbid curiosity about how it might transpire. But then the competitor in me wanted to ensure no one got the chance.
If I was going to be voted out, I hoped it would be a blindside and I think I would've taken my hat off to the person that outplayed me - it is in the DNA of Survivor.

At the same time, I understand that there is a place and a right to feel aggrieved about being voted out. Where I had a relationship, I tried to reach out following the tribal council. That applied pre-merge (Chucky, Welshy) and post-merge (Rabbits, Wolfie, Teeth, Stu, Chewie, Cunbert, B/L) - not out of any game play, but because the relationships are real, and while Survivor intrigues us all, it can also be a brutal and cold thing.

So in terms of the jury, I can only say that the manner that people have conducted themselves in this competition has been impressive and with a beautiful temperament.
I expect that the jury will look to decide who they think has played the best game, rather than retaliating through their votes.

Cunbert - you seem to have been in control all series. When were you most nervous?

I was a bit nervous about every tribal where I was involved.
I always felt a responsibility to the people of my alliance, and there would almost always be someone in my alliance getting votes - so I never felt comfortable.

Ironically I probably felt the least nervous when my name went up against Moanaman - that may have been because of Covid, it may be because it was the one time where I didn't feel a responsibility towards someone else.

When we blindsided Chucky, I claimed responsibility both to Chucky himself and to Welshy.
Chucky was forgiving and handled it with class. Welshy was pissed and gave me both barrels.
When I blindsided Welshy, I knew what was coming, and while I was very nervous, I nevertheless went to him during the vote. He told me exactly how he felt about the whole thing - Survivor might be a game, but you're dealing with real people, and the hurt is real - I never took lightly what the vote means.

But that was just for context.
The most nervous I felt began with six people left in the game; myself, B/L, JM, Stu, Papa and yourself (Cunbert).
(I would also describe this as my biggest post-merge move to answer Rabbits question).

With six left, the game stood on a precipice.
It was anyone's game, but the clear target should've been breaking my and B/L's hold on the game. One of us should've gone home. Stu & Cunbert had immunity.
Papa & Stu had swung just a fortnight ago to knock out Teeth. JM is a very adept player and would've known that now was the chance to make a power move and own the game.
You had just lost Chewie and were perceived as the natural adversary to B/L and myself.
B/L and I trusted each other implicitly - that could've been the biggest weakness of my game if it weren't for the fact that it was our strength.
I knew Papa was playing her game and playing it hard.
That left Stu and Cunbert as the key.
Stu and I had a good relationship, and he's someone I will continue to have a lot of time for.
While I think Stu was prepared to make a move, he didn't seem prepared to back an action that would take me out.

It probably would surprise most that Cunbert and I had a good honest relationship with each other - this came about post-merge when Cunbert was on the bottom and I treated him with honesty and kindness at a time when he may have felt like a dead man walking.

So, I had a huge choice; leave my fate and the fate of B/L and JM to chance and potentially go to a 3-3 split, or lock things down with Cunbert there and then.
We agreed to a final 3, I consoled myself with the thought that I could probably take him to a final 4 and who knows?
With B/L, JM, and Cunbert onside, there was no room for Papa to play, there wasn't room to tempt Stu away, the risk profile grew too big for JM to risk trying to stamp his name on the game.

The week that followed I won an individual immunity for the third time. I wanted to keep Cunbert - I agonised over the decision, but I knew keeping his was a dumb play. I agonised over whether I could go through with it (as I'm sure B/L and JM could attest) - I hated it, I hated my role in it, I hated that I had chosen that path.
I think it was one of the few times I lost confidence in my play, in my judgement.

So when the tribal rolled round, I felt very nervous.
It wasn't nerves like Welshy, dreading the kickback, it was the nerves of knowing you were betraying someone who had played an honourable game, and that you were taking down a good man.
I tried to anticipate what I thought Cunbert would want - if he would prefer to know in advance that he had been betrayed, or if he would prefer to go out Survivor style - I chose the later. It was how I would've wanted to go.

Great answers lads, a lot of insight. I for one can vouch that ET took peoples feelings heavily into account with voting and I remember telling him early on that it's a game and you have to be ruthless and just do what needs to done and it will get easier. Look where you are now?!

I appreciate you wanting to blindside me JM, that means a lot. I know I screwed you over in season 1 too mate.

To be fair though, from my perspective, I wasn't invested in this year at all. BL wanted me to play and I joined out of respect for him. BL and ET did the work, they just had my number up until I was voted out. That never wavered. Chewie broke up a good thing and he was always on the chopping block after that haha!