Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

take the 2 points and run.....


probably our second worst performance of the year, lucky sione dropped that ball because if he holds that, i think with all the running they had, i'm not sure we win

positives to take out of it

* Frawley just might be the answer. make a call between mbye/jrey for the 6 and mvoe the other to either hooker/bench. we were better with frawley
* Adam Elliot - been pretty good all year, looks like one the young benchies is finailly taking steps to make an impact, love his energy and aggression
* Montoya looks like a really good young winger



Hopefully the klem injury isn't to bad, we missed him when he went off and really need him for the good friday game against the burgess boys


we need a goal kicker, scoring 5 tries to 2 and winning by 10 is telling. We're kicking at 50% for the season thus far, it played a huge part in the loss against the chooks, it could have cost us last night, its a huge issue that will cost us more games

Thought Mbye's short kicking game early looked noticeably better. Frawley in the back of your mind and the fact this time last year Mbye couldn't do any wrong both help.

Dogs sign Foran and Woods.
Surely that means Mbye and Reynolds are going to be told to look elsewhere? Unless Mbye or reynolds can play fullback/hooker.

Woods arrival surely means Tolman/Graham are being asked to leave.

Far out their team is good, must be utilising this cap well, that doesnt exist yet.

Hoppa
Bmoz
Jmoz
Mbye
Reynolds
Jackson
Klemmer
Kasiano
Woods
Tolman
Graham

Fuck me dead.

Surely the best halves pairing is Mbye/Foran next year
Leaves Frawley and Reynolds looking for new homes.

Tigers should be chasing them

Pieman wrote:Surely the best halves pairing is Mbye/Foran next year
Leaves Frawley and Reynolds looking for new homes.

Tigers should be chasing them

Pearce/Keary
Sezer/Austin
JT/Morgan
Townsend/Maloney
Hunt/Widdop

Take any of those pairings ahead of Mbye/Foran.

I just dont get the hype around the Bulldogs... Props dont win you Premierships and their backline is full of players whose best days are behind them. Take out Mbye and the rest of their 1-7 is either "meh" or past their prime.

ryno_ wrote:

Pearce/Keary
Sezer/Austin
JT/Morgan
Townsend/Maloney
Hunt/Widdop

Take any of those pairings ahead of Mbye/Foran.

I just dont get the hype around the Bulldogs... Props dont win you Premierships and their backline is full of players whose best days are behind them. Take out Mbye and the rest of their 1-7 is either "meh" or past their prime.

with their current squad sure. but with Foran there it changes things hugely. Foran isn't neccessarily one of those 'make your team a contender type player' but with the rest of the squad around him he is the missing piece IMO. doesn't make them in the favourites category or anything but Foran leading around the pack that they have they should be featuring come September next year. They may come in at around 6 or so, but if I was an opposition coach I wouldn't want to be playing a team with the likes of Graham, Tolman (depending who's still there), Woods and Klemmer being walked up the field with Foran pulling the strings in a knockout match in September.

And as for props don't win you premierships I'd disagree to a degree there. Props and forward packs don't win you minor premierships, what they do is win you playoff games. If you gave me the choice right now of Team A vs Team B where team A can consistently make 50 metres and get to their kicks in a knockout match vs Team B with a lower completion rate who rely on 80m sets to get them out of trouble I know what team I want. For all the struggles over the years the Tigers and the Bulldogs have been basically two halves of the same coin. One has the forward pack to get them up the field but doesn't have the backline to do anything, while the other has all the talent in the world out back but can't consistently make metres. Having Foran doesn't solve the dogs problems in the backs completely but should mean a few of those almost chances but for bad decision making suddenly turn into the right plays and a few more tries come their way.

Pieman wrote:Surely the best halves pairing is Mbye/Foran next year
Leaves Frawley and Reynolds looking for new homes.

Tigers should be chasing them

I'd take JRey/Foran ahead of that but I think Mbye is signed up already isn't he?

ryno_ wrote:

Pearce/Keary
Sezer/Austin
JT/Morgan
Townsend/Maloney
Hunt/Widdop

Take any of those pairings ahead of Mbye/Foran.

I just dont get the hype around the Bulldogs... Props dont win you Premierships and their backline is full of players whose best days are behind them. Take out Mbye and the rest of their 1-7 is either "meh" or past their prime.

I agree with Beast from the Big East.

Props may not attract enough attention to win a Clive Churchill (other than Brent Kite) but they will certainly win you the comp.

If they then had Foran and JRey behind that with their willingness to take on the line, they look a formidable team.

Funny to think that the media was calling for Dessie's head a month or so ago.

ideal halves for me is foz/jrey with mbye playing either 9 or 1, 2 positions we now won't be able to fill from the outside

Des doesn't seem to keen on mbye at fullback (when abbey went off at the knights, he rathered Mbye > centre, Jmoz to wing, Bmoz to fullback rather then a straight switch of mbye to fullback)

i think we're gonna lose a handful of players, i can't believe we re-signed tolman to sign woods a few months later, woods is an upgrade on tolman but having both is stupid, oh well.

i don't think we'll be stupid enough to release graham, i'm sure he will be there next year

say guys like hoppa, lichaa, eastwood, holland and kasiano end up moving on, somthing like this looks ok

1 bmoz (maybe abbey but he didn't look ready)
2 Phillips (maybe bmoz if abbey fills the 1)
3 jmoz
4 brenk
5 Montoya
6 jrey
7 foz
8 woods
9 mbye
10 graham
11 elliot
12 jackson
13 klem

14 tolman
15 RFM
16 one of the young props to play a 15-20 minute 2nd half stint
17 Woolford/garvey


The foz signing is huge but woods makes the trade off a bit meh to me, we have 3 big minute middle in tolman, klem and graham, we're gonna make it 4 and end up losing a big point of difference player in kasiano


i think we'll be similar to what we are now, better then 6-10 teams because the NRL is full of shit teams but not contenders, that changes if abbey or another young fullback takes a leap to really solidify the spine but untill then i think we still fall short

ryno_ wrote:

Pearce/Keary
Sezer/Austin
JT/Morgan
Townsend/Maloney
Hunt/Widdop

Take any of those pairings ahead of Mbye/Foran.

I just dont get the hype around the Bulldogs... Props dont win you Premierships and their backline is full of players whose best days are behind them. Take out Mbye and the rest of their 1-7 is either "meh" or past their prime.

Ok? I meant best halves pair for the bulldogs, not in the comp mate.
Props certainly do win you comps. They dont score the tries or get the attention halves or fullbacks do, but fuck me they 100% win you comps.

I reckon having a dominant organising half like foran really makes them title contenders. Mbye and reynolds are both running, play what you see kind of halves. Letting them do that and taking the organising out of their hands makes both of them better players. Having an acutal organising half there too would do wonders for Leicha too IMO, but in saying that he prob wont even be there next season. Mbye will most likely be playing hooker next season.

I dont think adding woods makes the side any better at the expense of Tolman and especially Graham. Woods is half the player graham is. He is no better than Tolman and has been kissed on the dick by the footy gods to be picked in these rep teams over Tolman. They are basically Identical players, the only difference is woods prob has more of an offload. That and Woods is a fucking pillow.

Frawley has done enough this season to warrant some interest from clubs who need a solid organising 7. I would happily take him over hodkinson and lamb. I wouldnt be surprised if Melbourne go after him to replace cronk. The tigers could do worse than go after him too, I would actually be making him one of my priorities if I was at the tigers.

tigers have kept brooks tho, brooks/frawley looks very meh to me


Frawley has been good for us but honestly, i don't think he is anymore then a jeff robson type player, solid, composed player who probs isn't really first grade standard but will get a job here and there because some teams are desperate for that type pf player (like us before getting foz)


lichaa still can't p[ass right to left and his running game still ends up with at best 8 yards before attempting that stupid little duck that gets him tackles every time, i wanted him to work but it aint happening


woods is a better player then tolman but agree, its basically a slightly better verson of the same player, having both is gonna be odd, especially with graham having some similiar traits aswell, maybe we are expecting a change to 6 interchanges and middle 4 rotations of those 3 + klem is all about dealing with that, i dunno, i can't really see the logic in having both tolman and woods

Pieman wrote:

Ok? I meant best halves pair for the bulldogs, not in the comp mate.
Props certainly do win you comps. They dont score the tries or get the attention halves or fullbacks do, but fuck me they 100% win you comps.

If props win comps, how come the Bulldogs havnt won in the Tolman/Graham era? That'd have to be the best prop pairing in the league by some margin - but no chocolates.

If props win comps, how did Tolman & Graham get rolled by the likes of Dave Tyrell and Bryan Norrie in 2014 & 2012?

Props do not win comps. You cant win without 2 warm, vertical bodies on the field... but you can win with some ordinary plodders in 8 & 10.

Do coaches and recruiters know a bit more than we do about a potential reduction to interchanges in the future? I don't think many people can understand how Graham + Tolman + Woods will work, but if the interchange reduces from 8-6 perhaps the only way you can play small minute guys like Kasiano and Eastwood is if you're getting 60+ minutes out of 3 props.

If you tell a guy like Kasiano to lose say 10kg so he can play 40 minutes, then he probably loses his effectiveness (a bit like telling Usain Bolt to start running the 1500m instead of 100m). Des might be happy to have some high volume, low impact, big minute props to match the opposition for 60 minutes, and still play someone like Kasiano in the same role 10 minutes each side of half-time. That might be even more effective if other teams instead go the way of having smaller props (say more like Josh McGuire) as a way of managing reduced interchanges.

ryno_ wrote:

If props win comps, how come the Bulldogs havnt won in the Tolman/Graham era? That'd have to be the best prop pairing in the league by some margin - but no chocolates.  

If props win comps, how did Tolman & Graham get rolled by the likes of Dave Tyrell and Bryan Norrie in 2014 & 2012?

Props do not win comps. You cant win without 2 warm, vertical bodies on the field... but you can win with some ordinary plodders in 8 & 10.

andrew fifita or glenn lazarus? Fifita won them the GF last year. Shane Webke? Matt Scott? Gallen plays like a prop.
Sure you cant have a team full of props, but having at least 1 world class prop in your side goes a long way to winning a comp.

2014, Sam Burgess may not wear 8 or 10 but fuck me dead he plays like a prop in the middle of the park.
George Burgess was one of the best props in the league that year too.

2012 - jesse bromwich? Noz had a fucking good year that year too. Melbourne have prob the best prop in the league, but their brilliance comes from their big how ever many it is now.

The dogs problem's were/are linking the forwards to the backs well, its not the props fault that the backs couldnt score points after the platform had been set. Plus their problems are the props are also the halfback and 6.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that having a great prop or 2 helps win a comp.

Dip wrote:Do coaches and recruiters know a bit more than we do about a potential reduction to interchanges in the future? I don't think many people can understand how Graham + Tolman + Woods will work, but if the interchange reduces from 8-6 perhaps the only way you can play small minute guys like Kasiano and Eastwood is if you're getting 60+ minutes out of 3 props.

If you tell a guy like Kasiano to lose say 10kg so he can play 40 minutes, then he probably loses his effectiveness (a bit like telling Usain Bolt to start running the 1500m instead of 100m). Des might be happy to have some high volume, low impact, big minute props to match the opposition for 60 minutes, and still play someone like Kasiano in the same role 10 minutes each side of half-time. That might be even more effective if other teams instead go the way of having smaller props (say more like Josh McGuire) as a way of managing reduced interchanges.

agreed and i think kasiano's effectiveness already rose because of the interchange rule tbh, he was awesome in 2012, but then pretty meh between 2013-2015 but his stints since the reduction in interchanges have been quality and i do think its because of our other 3 middle players being capable of churning out 55-60, just don't really know if we need 4 but i guess a change to 6 may make that of some benefit

gotta admit, who ever we end signing or moving on, i really do hate that talking about next year is the cycle of ruby league these days, no one seems to care about the footy being played, i guess its because we end up with only a handful of teams who can contend every year but i would really like to see all signings done at the end of the year, the excuse used by the players needing time to find a place is a load of shit, temporary accommodation could be provided if needed but the money these guys are now, they can make do

from a bulldogs POV i'd rathe be talking about mbye to 9, frawley to 7 type of talk then all this nonsense that is a year away from happening and still not even confirmed.


regardless of what you think about the tigers, the way that manager has been able to play this out is ridiculous and i have no doubt it has to have some impact on their form this year, i feel for their fans, they should be able to enjoy teddy etc for this year but instead they will feel a high level of resentment to all 3 and i hate that

Pieman wrote:
andrew fifita or glenn lazarus? Fifita won them the GF last year. Shane Webke? Matt Scott? Gallen plays like a prop.
Sure you cant have a team full of props, but having at least 1 world class prop in your side goes a long way to winning a comp.

2014, Sam Burgess may not wear 8 or 10 but fuck me dead he plays like a prop in the middle of the park.
George Burgess was one of the best props in the league that year too.

2012 - jesse bromwich? Noz had a fucking good year that year too. Melbourne have prob the best prop in the league, but their brilliance comes from their big how ever many it is now.

The dogs problem's were/are linking the forwards to the backs well, its not the props fault that the backs couldnt score points after the platform had been set. Plus their problems are the props are also the halfback and 6.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that having a great prop or 2 helps win a comp.

agreed. while you need people to ultimately get the ball over the line you need to get your team into a position close enough to the line to do so. over the course of a season a great effort from a prop/strong running lock (mcguire/surgess mould) will probably get a bit of notice but won't be talked about the same as the efforts of a superstar back. but once you get to finals footy it's a different kettle of fish. defences shut down the big plays, halves and fullbacks tend to play a bit safer for fear of fucking up. that's when your forward pack matters. for when you have to deal with multiple repeat sets and you need to get your team some field position, that's when the worth of a top quality forward pack matters.

and in my opinion a forward pack is only as good as either the 9 or the half that's steering them around. JBrom, Tohu and Proctor aside there have been some average players in the Storm's forwards for years. yet you get them to run hard and follow wherever the fuck Smith and Cronk tell them to run and they are exactly what you want come finals. on the other side you have a forward pack full of talent in the Warriors in recent years but with no proper guidance you never know what you will get. Foran + dogs forward pack=trouble for any other side come finals footy. yes other teams will have better backs and a better half combos but you let the big boys run and have Foran controlling the play with either JRey or Mbye providing a spark and they are dangerous

I guess the old saying of a chain only being as strong as it's weakest link is fairly appropriate. No good having test forwards and halves of Jeff Robson and Josh McCrone if you want to win the premiership.

Having said that, in terms of winning the premiership, I'd like my chances more with test halves and solid club players for props, than test props and solid club players for halves. The difference between a solid club player and a test quality player isn't really that much for a prop, but it sure is for a half. E.g. Jesse Bromwich is a bit better than Jordan Maclean, but Cooper Cronk is much much better than Chad Townsend (though that is probably reflected in their salaries as well I guess).

leaguegod wrote:gotta admit, who ever we end signing or moving on, i really do hate that talking about next year is the cycle of ruby league these days, no one seems to care about the footy being played, i guess its because we end up with only a handful of teams who can contend every year but i would really like to see all signings done at the end of the year, the excuse used by the players needing time to find a place is a load of shit, temporary accommodation could be provided if needed but the money these guys are now, they can make do

from a bulldogs POV i'd rathe be talking about mbye to 9, frawley to 7 type of talk then all this nonsense that is a year away from happening and still not even confirmed.


regardless of what you think about the tigers, the way that manager has been able to play this out is ridiculous and i have no doubt it has to have some impact on their form this year, i feel for their fans, they should be able to enjoy teddy etc for this year but instead they will feel a high level of resentment to all 3 and i hate that

I've never really had a problem with signing the contracts early, but now that you mention it, there definitely is more talk about that than footy at the moment.

Apparently it's the player's association who is against the end of season deadline isn't it? Talk is the NRL is low balling the proposed salary cap for next year compared to what the club and player's association want. Hopefully that is part of the negotiation process. "Okay we'll increase the cap to $10M and minimum salary to $150K, but in return contracts can't be negotiated or signed with another club until after the GF."

As long as that doesn't mean those players sign with union or overseas since they can't negotiate with other clubs, I think most people would be happy with that.