Lions tour of NZ

Any Rugby folk here from the North? I feel like a bit of banter

How the fuck can the best of Eng Wales Scot and Ire almost get beaten by a bunch of semi-pros and then lose to the shittest Super Rugby side we have that wasn't even putting up their best team? They had a rookie 20 year old first five for goodness sake.

Honestly the Lions are going to get absolutely embarrassed on this tour, if they haven't already... Im picking they win 3 or 4 games all tour. 3 zip to the ABs and they will beat NZ Maori, Highlanders and perhaps one of Canes and Chiefs (hard to know cause we don't know what teams those two will put up). Crusaders will woop them up on Saturday....

Retort anyone?

Credit where Credit is due - the Lions surprised and made the Crusaders Look Ordinary. That up an in D put the Crusaders backs under a heap of pressure and they simply couldnt handle it. Surprised the Crusaders back 3 were so woeful under the high ball too.

The score line flattered IMO, Lions were one pass away from at least 2 maybe 3? tries where as Crusaders probably only came close once.

Downside is that will be the exact game plan the Lions bring to the ABs and I think Hansen and co will be too smart for that and the higher level of players they have at their disposal will be able to execute under pressure.

I'll revise my prediction and say Lions now look likely to win 5 or 6 on this tour.

Rippin and Tearin wrote:That up an in D put the Crusaders backdoor under a heap of pressure and they simply couldnt handle it.

FTYFY
That's about my opinion of the Crusaders as well

No Worries wrote:

FTYFY
That's about my opinion of the Crusaders as well

Hey as long as the leave the back door of beloved Hurricanes alone I'll be happy.

Also Im going to the game tomorrow and whilst Im a firm believer in each to their own when it comes to any kind of action Im hoping to avoid witnessing any Bad Boy Bubby like prison action live!

I'm not worried about losses in the slightest all building towards tomorrow and the tests!

4th rest against the Maoris, both losses a testament to the incredible strength in depth of the NZ provincial sides weakened slightly but vs the mid week lions

building nicely

tests will be won by Lions if we can dominate up front, reckon we have the bating of the front 5 and backrow! never rated Cane and think Warbs will out muscle him. Faletau vs Reid/Savea will be incredible

Welshy wrote:I'm not worried about losses in the slightest all building towards tomorrow and the tests!

4th rest against the Maoris, both losses a testament to the incredible strength in depth of the NZ provincial sides weakened slightly but vs the mid week lions

building nicely

tests will be won by Lions if we can dominate up front, reckon we have the bating of the front 5 and backrow! never rated Cane and think Warbs will out muscle him. Faletau vs Reid/Savea will be incredible

Haha, yeah right, keep telling yourself that It's embarrassing bro, they arent even full strength super rugby sides the Lions are losing too.

But yeah I agree, it is a testament to the depth of NZ rugby. I also think a clear gulf has been demonstrated between the 1st and 2nd Lions teams.

Lions absolutely dominated the Maori (at least I picked that one right)!!

No way the Lions win the series against the ABs though mate, unless of course they can learn to catch and pass in the next 7 days!

In all seriousness though I have been very impressed by the main Lions side that has beaten the Crusaders and Maori. They were very dominant wins. I just dont think the same pressure that made those teams fold will work against the ABs, not for 80 minutes anyway. Im expecting most of the 3 games to be tight(ish) for 60 minutes, and then the ABs exert dominance in the last 20. Ave winning margin ~10 points. I do think the Lions are a shot at winning one match if the ABs play poorly but I'll go with a 3-0 sweep!

I should also balance the above by saying the Lions absolutely embarrassed the NZ Maori too!

What I dont understand is they should have known exactly what was coming (after the Crusaders game) so where was the coaching brains to derive a strategy to deal with the rush defense, the up and unders?

DMac was a bad call at 10. The kid has played 15 all season and has been great but the Maori needed class at 10 to control things, and in particular a class kicking game. DMac gave them none of that. Then you have James Lowe, one of the best wingers in the comp should never have been at 15. And Ioane who looked every bit the 19 year old positionaly and under the high ball. Such an easy fix right there: Lowe to the Wing, DMac to 15, and Mounga to start at 10.

On top of that Ngatai at 12 was a bad call after the guy has had 80 min of rugby in the last 2 years. And TKB should have known better than to lead with the shoulder. If it wasnt already it was game over when he did that! And people wonder why TJ has surpassed him in the backup 9 roll!

So with the quality that the ABs have both in players and coaching I would expect they will be able to deal with the strengths the Lions have displayed so far on tour already.

Time will tell though!!

Why would I care about losing mate when all the build up games are there to build combinations and create a test team best to do what the tour is about, beating the AB's in the test series.

The two losses have weeded out players not in form and those 2 big wins have set in stone players who are best suited to beating the kiwis.

It all starts upfront...We have to dominate there or we have ZERO chance. No northern hemisphere backs can match the flair of the all blacks so we have to batter their pack, the BIG difference in Lions and any NH side will be the strength of the bench, NZ dominate the last 20 of the matches because their strength in depth is far and away better than anyone else, players coming off the pine who are as good as their counterparts, the lions will have that same luxury.

Don't get me started on the 4 welsh player call up, that is a fucking disgrace and as an avid Gats supporter I finally can't defend his actions. Devaluing the Lions shirt

Haha, Im just winding you up mate, although I do think it is pretty fascinating that Super Rugby teams without many of their stars can beat the Lions, despite them being the mid-week sides. I do think it's embarrassing for the players though. Not so much the losses themselves but the pitiful excuse for what they are calling "playing rugby". They really have been extraordinarily average. I

Im sure its the case that the Lions and Lions supporters will happily lose every game of the tour if it meant winning the series (although Im guessing the players in losing teams aren't that stoked!).

Actually with that in mind, given how things have gone so far, in your opinion, if the Lions lose the test series 2-1 would that be considered a success? Because IMO anything but a 3-0 win would probably be deemed a failure by the ABs and AB supporters.

Kiwis are finally starting to get barred up about this Lions tour. I think the Lions have earned a bit more respect now with a second very good performance against the Maori and the midweek lads finally getting their act together, albeit against the Chiefs B-team.

Ruling interpretations of Piper might play a big part in this first game.

Im expecting the ABs to win, but by a relatively small margin. I just think the Gatland has completely shown his hand already so the ABs and coaching staff will know exactly what to expect and if the so-called best coaching staff in the world can't combat that on ~3 weeks notice with the best players in the world at their disposal I'd be very surprised!! Lots of kicks in behind to push the Lions back and lots of inside balls and fast hands in the forwards to cross the advantage line. Both will eventually create space outside. I also believe SBW will be used a lot as a decoy to attract defenders with 2nd man plays utilising the space created.

Looking forward to it. Should be a great first game!

Good game in the end, Lions were better thab I expected, but ABs were really clinical! The game was pretty lopsided in the end. I can't see anything other than a convincing series sweep by the ABs. My guess is that if we get a dry weather game the ABs will put 40 on the Lions!!

Certainly not embarrassing from the Lions but I'd say there will be a pretty hefty debrief of this tour and the schedule they went for....

Rippin and Tearin wrote:Good game in the end, Lions were better thab I expected, but ABs were really clinical! The game was pretty lopsided in the end. I can't see anything other than a convincing series sweep by the ABs. My guess is that if we get a dry weather game the ABs will put 40 on the Lions!!

Certainly not embarrassing from the Lions but I'd say there will be a pretty hefty debrief of this tour and the schedule they went for....

Were you really expecting the Lions to get embarrassed mate?
The schedule is a piss take but no excuse from some of the test players who have only played once a week, guys like Kruis were shocking in the tight, he gets picked to run the lineout and make the hard yards and he got stripped twice and lost the ball in contact and missed plenty of tackles around the ruck, that simply isn't good enough, Vunipola the same

They read too much into their dominating pack headlines and walked it, unless you beat the ABs upfront you have ZERO chance to win the game, to stop the forwards offloading and the quick ruck speed you have to win the collision area and we got battered the coudln't live with the intensity. I thought Faletau was immense again, JD13 was class and Watson flashed

May sound like Welsh bias but I would this for the next test

McGrath
George
Furlong
Itoje
Lawes
Warbs
Tips
Faletau

Webb
Farrell
North
Henshaw
Davies
Watson
Williams

Welshy wrote:

Were you really expecting the Lions to get embarrassed mate?
The schedule is a piss take but no excuse from some of the test players who have only played once a week, guys like Kruis were shocking in the tight, he gets picked to run the lineout and make the hard yards and he got stripped twice and lost the ball in contact and missed plenty of tackles around the ruck, that simply isn't good enough, Vunipola the same

They read too much into their dominating pack headlines and walked it, unless you beat the ABs upfront you have ZERO chance to win the game, to stop the forwards offloading and the quick ruck speed you have to win the collision area and we got battered the coudln't live with the intensity. I thought Faletau was immense again, JD13 was class and Watson flashed

I think the Lions as a collective unit were certainly at risk of being embarrassed tactically. There's no doubt the Lions players individually are talented, but in terms of their tactics it was really predictable as to what they would put out on the paddock and as a result I think they made it really easy for the ABs. That being said they did use the ball a bit more than they had to date on the tour, and that try they scored was class. But overall I think they need to change tacks and put pressure on the ABs with ball in hand. Relying solely on set piece and up-an-unders is archaic, and as you say the notion that they will be able to dominate the ABs up front is a pipe dream. It's all just way too easy for the ABs to devise a game plan to counter. The only way I can see the Lions having any chance is either 1) a massive shift in tactics, and/or 2) a referee with very different interpretations of the laws of the game and an ABs team that doesnt adapt quick enough. I do think that later is possible as it has been demonstrated already this tour that NH and SH style refereeing is very different!

With all that said in my many years of watching rugby this AB team is quite outstanding. I really dont think the Lions have much better than a punchers chance of beating them. The gap in class is simply too big no matter what tactics the Lions employ or who refs the game. Time will tell if I am right but at this stage I dont see anything other than the convincing 3 zip series whitewash than I predicted at the start of the tour.

What is going on with the Lions? Does Gatland know what he's doing? Last night was very odd!!

Rippin and Tearin wrote:What is going on with the Lions? Does Gatland know what he's doing? Last night was very odd!!

I really don't understand the decision on the subs, baffling!

Yellow turned the game, good to watch for the neutral

Still looking forward to Saturday

Welshy wrote:

I really don't understand the decision on the subs, baffling!

Yellow turned the game, good to watch for the neutral

Still looking forward to Saturday

Yeah mate, me too. Despite the fact that the ABs tend to get better over series, I actually think they played close to as good as they can get in the first game. So if the Lions can step it up just a wee bit, change their tactics up a touch. They should make it a lot more competitive.

I understand Lawes will come onto the bench and Itoje will start - Kruis will get dropped completely.

I've been told Warberton will take over captaincy and start in place of O'Mahony.

And also another change on the bench will see Halfpenny dropped for Jack Nowell who has impressed all tour!

Those changes will help a lot I think!

Rippin and Tearin wrote:

Yeah mate, me too. Despite the fact that the ABs tend to get better over series, I actually think they played close to as good as they can get in the first game. So if the Lions can step it up just a wee bit, change their tactics up a touch. They should make it a lot more competitive.

I understand Lawes will come onto the bench and Itoje will start - Kruis will get dropped completely.

I've been told Warberton will take over captaincy and start in place of O'Mahony.

And also another change on the bench will see Halfpenny dropped for Jack Nowell who has impressed all tour!

Those changes will help a lot I think!

Nowell was a nailed on test starter before the tour before he produced two utter garbage performances, decent last hit out might see him grab a bench spot but I would rather bring North on or start him and use Daly as the impact sub! Naholo back into team so whoever starts wing is going to have their hands full!! Warburton has to come in he is outstanding and probably the most underrated player in world rugby! My boy has a footy tournament Saturday morning! First time I have ever missed watching him play, lions are too important lol

Really dumb stuff from SBW, but win fully deserved by the Lions. Gonna make for a good final game!

Until Vunipola went off I actually thought the ABs were gonna do enough to win it, but it turns out that idiot was pretty much single handedly keeping the ABs in it. He really needs to be dropped!!

But to the Lions Credit, they really came together once he went off and scored 2 really good tries. The ABs had no answers to the Lions D, and it was all over.

ABs will win 2-1 though as long as they can keep 15 men on the field!

EDIT: Weather forecast is for rain again, and another French referee. I have no gripes about the refereeing per se, however the difference in styles between NH and SH is very evident. I'd rather a free flowing game but that is very unlikely with Romain Poite (even if it was a dry weather game). Offside lines at least should be enforced, last weekend was a debacle in that respect.

Wow, a drawn match and drawn series!! My faith in the ABs completely misguided in that game. In the end probably a pretty fair result but I must say an extremely disappointing one from an AB perspective.

Without seeing stats from the game my impression was that the ABs dominated in terms of possesion and territory. They seemed to have 5 out of 6 attacking chances. But their handling let them down and that is usually due to defensive pressure. The Lions have got to be hugely commended on that. In the end though one could argue goal kicking was a massive factor, perhaps the deciding factor in both the 2nd and final tests. The Lions kicking was flawless and the ABs average, missing several points in both games.

Exciting series overall and really hope this wasn't the last Lions tour to NZ. Their fans were absolutely spectacular the whole tour!