State of Origin Game 1

Dip wrote:So you think in the top photo Gagai is barely tackled?

I would like to see it in normal speed.

Personally, I think it would be more of a mix of Bird holding on a bit and Gagai trying to play it too fast.
Doesnt change the fact it was a shit play the ball and should have been eithe a penalty or a lost ball.

I stand corrected, apparently you can argue despite those photos...




Carry on then.

"Only everything below my knees was in the ruck sir, so that means I wasnt laying in the ruck"

Look, obviously Walker did the wrong thing by trying to milk a penalty out of it by reaching to the side where Smiths hands were - but smith was doing the wrong thing by laying in the ruck too.

If Smith isnt interfering with the ruck in some capacity, it doesn't happen at all.

Pieman wrote:"Only everything below my knees was in the ruck sir, so that means I wasnt laying in the ruck"

Look, obviously Walker did the wrong thing by trying to milk a penalty out of it by reaching to the side where Smiths hands were - but smith was doing the wrong thing by laying in the ruck too.

If Smith isnt interfering with the ruck in some capacity, it doesn't happen at all.

 
I shouldn't bite but I'll give it one crack.

Smith "being in the ruck from below the knees" only comes into it if Walker attempts to play the ball correctly, until then it doesn't matter. If Walker stands up facing the wrong way and tries to play the ball or drops it on the way up the ref isn't going to say oh well Smith is still there where you COULD have played it so I'll give you a penalty. Walker can't play the ball the way he attempted to do, which takes Smith completely out of the equation. It was dumb. It's also such a silly thing to argue over so I'll bail out now before I get sucked in further.

Archer wrote:

 
I shouldn't bite but I'll give it one crack.

Smith "being in the ruck from below the knees" only comes into it if Walker attempts to play the ball correctly, until then it doesn't matter. If Walker stands up facing the wrong way and tries to play the ball or drops it on the way up the ref isn't going to say oh well Smith is still there where you COULD have played it so I'll give you a penalty. Walker can't play the ball the way he attempted to do, which takes Smith completely out of the equation. It was dumb. It's also such a silly thing to argue over so I'll bail out now before I get sucked in further.

Pieman wrote:

I would like to see it in normal speed.

Personally, I think it would be more of a mix of Bird holding on a bit and Gagai trying to play it too fast.
Doesnt change the fact it was a shit play the ball and should have been eithe a penalty or a lost ball.

You should check it out in normal speed.....it's even more obviously a penalty to QLD that was blatantly missed.

Archer wrote:

 
I shouldn't bite but I'll give it one crack.

Smith "being in the ruck from below the knees" only comes into it if Walker attempts to play the ball correctly, until then it doesn't matter. If Walker stands up facing the wrong way and tries to play the ball or drops it on the way up the ref isn't going to say oh well Smith is still there where you COULD have played it so I'll give you a penalty. Walker can't play the ball the way he attempted to do, which takes Smith completely out of the equation. It was dumb. It's also such a silly thing to argue over so I'll bail out now before I get sucked in further.

I'll play devils advocate, Walker had to play it like that in order to get the ball far enough away from the legs, he had to do this because you can't rule against Cam Smith.

For what it's worth I thought it was a knock on. Just play the game in the spirit of what it should be contested, don't lower yourself to the depths of QLD.

The Gagai play the ball was Gagai trying to play it too fast and fucked it up, but again - QLD will always get the 50/50 calls, while we have Gallen and captain and they have Smith we will never get the calls.

Honeysett wrote:

I'll play devils advocate, Walker had to play it like that in order to get the ball far enough away from the legs, he had to do this because you can't rule against Cam Smith.

For what it's worth I thought it was a knock on. Just play the game in the spirit of what it should be contested, don't lower yourself to the depths of QLD.

The Gagai play the ball was Gagai trying to play it too fast and fucked it up, but again - QLD will always get the 50/50 calls, while we have Gallen and captain and they have Smith we will never get the calls.

You were a lot happier in 2014

Re: walker. We blow to many penalties for lost balls in that situation as it is, the onus should be more on the ball carrier and i hate seeing guys pretty much losing it on purpose rewarded in NRL, i can't stand it if the dogs get penalized when fifita loses it, it tries once or twice every game, shits me. the call was 100% right


Re gagai, legitimate 50/50. bird doesn't release but gagai is trying to play the ball to quickly and ended up playing it incorrectly, in NRL this can go either way. in origin they were to scared to blow a penalty regardless lol

leaguegod wrote:Re: walker. We blow to many penalties for lost balls in that situation as it is, the onus should be more on the ball carrier and i hate seeing guys pretty much losing it on purpose rewarded in NRL, i can't stand it if the dogs get penalized when fifita loses it, it tries once or twice every game, shits me. the call was 100% right


Re gagai, legitimate 50/50. bird doesn't release but gagai is trying to play the ball to quickly and ended up playing it incorrectly, in NRL this can go either way. in origin they were to scared to blow a penalty regardless lol

Para 1 - couldn't agree more and in fairness to the ref's I have noticed them picking up on this milking shit a lot more, even during the regular season games.
Too often we focus on the mistakes they make rather than the positives and this is certainly something they are doing better this year.

Para 2 - I was filthy at the time because Gagai was trying to get the quick play the ball as he should have been entitled to but was clearly pushed over. Bad enough that we couldn't keep the momentum we were building, based on that run but on top of that I was sure the ref's would then bow to the crowd again and blow a penalty.
In the end it was probably a good call letting play go.

On the reffing in general, I thought NSW got the rub of the green throughout the match but you expect that when they have the home ground, crowd etc.

What I am impressed with is the gamesmanship and mind games shown by Big Kev, getting Daley to implode and have all the post match talk focus on NSW getting dudded by the ref's, despite them having most of the luck and really based off one call which the ref's would be well aware they got 100% correct.

Unlike the manner in which Mal used to apply pressure to the ref's, Daley has just come across as a petulant brat and if anything, the ref's will be less inclined to adapt their reffing to suit NSW in Games 2 and 3.
I thought Big Kev would be more suited to being the camp larrikin and have been pleasantly surprised with this aspect of his coaching which I honestly didn't think he had in him.

Of course they are your answers OSM, and thats why you're a bumbling fool

"Being honest, we did get some nice calls – favourable calls – and you need them at this level," Walters said. "You make your own luck, too. All of those 50-50 calls certainly went Queensland's way."

Good to see some honesty come out of the QLD camp for once.

The ref thing with Loz can go a number of ways..

Best Case
1. We get the same refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied
2. We get different refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied

Worst Case
1. We get the same refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)
2. We get different refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)

Its actually brilliant from Loz - because the worst thing that can happen from it is exactly what happens now anyway. Masterstroke.

Pieman wrote:The ref thing with Loz can go a number of ways..

Best Case
1. We get the same refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied
2. We get different refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied

Worst Case
1. We get the same refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)
2. We get different refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)

Its actually brilliant from Loz - because the worst thing that can happen from it is exactly what happens now anyway. Masterstroke.

Your best and worst case scenario's are completely flawed based on your moronic assessment of the Game 1 refereeing.

In fairness to you though Pieman, I probably rate your intelligence on par, or if anything only fractionally below Snoz's.....and thus can fully appreciate if you have been bamboozled by Big Kev's mind games.

dasherhalo wrote:

You were a lot happier in 2014

Obviously. Game 1 was a great game to watch, one of the best I've seen live. If you were neutral watching game 2 you'd think it was horrible. That seems to be QLDs game plan in NSW. Slow the play the ball down and back they can handle the one out stuff

Honeysett wrote:

Obviously. Game 1 was a great game to watch, one of the best I've seen live. If you were neutral watching game 2 you'd think it was horrible. That seems to be QLDs game plan in NSW. Slow the play the ball down and back they can handle the one out stuff

Well, you've seen the game plan from the losing side of things enough times. You'd think you guys would be able to come up with a strategy to deal with it by now.

I'm not advocating that it was a great game - it was a slog-fest, and the QLD attack was disjointed at best. But you get games like that occasionally, and I don't mind the grind. The desperation of the QLDers as Klemmer and Fifita really upped the ante. The QLD wingers and centres coming in and taking more and more of the hit ups as the forwards were gasping for air. Simply holding out was a relief, set after set.

No, it wasn't a pretty game, but you're selling it short IMHO.

So it seems like we're all in agreement. Those controversial calls could have gone two ways:

1. They could have gone as the refs called; or
2. The refs could have made the wrong call.

Pieman wrote:The ref thing with Loz can go a number of ways..

Best Case
1. We get the same refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied
2. We get different refs and they give NSW some of the 50/50 calls because of the pressure applied

Worst Case
1. We get the same refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)
2. We get different refs and they think, fuck you loz, and give QLD all the 50/50 calls (which is what happens now anyway so no harm done)

Its actually brilliant from Loz - because the worst thing that can happen from it is exactly what happens now anyway. Masterstroke.

Just out of curiosity, what are the 50/50 calls you had a problem with that were made by the on-field refs that Loz is looking to change? Some examples:

1. Walker play the ball called as a knock on instead of a penalty
2. Jennings knock on from the bomb that was called as a QLD knock on (before the video ref over-ruled)
3. Morris no-try that was called a try (before the video ref over-ruled)
4. Gallen high tackle that lead to the penalty goal
5. Jennings knock on in-goal that was called against QLD resulting in a drop out
6. Gagai play the ball that was called play on
7. Cordner try where the passed was ruled okay by the on field ref
8. Thaiday lost ball called a knock on rather than a strip by Moloney

Of all of those, the only calls that I think went against NSW by the on-field ref was the Gallen penalty, and some argument over the Gagai decision. I think pretty much everyone agrees the Walker call was actually a good call (and one which we want to see more often in the NRL). The Morris try was an incorrect call in NSW favour. The Jennings knock on was an incorrect call in NSW favour. Moloney pass to Cordner was ruled in favour of NSW, and the Jennings knock on that was overruled by the video ref was called in NSW favour. The Thaiday knock on was called in NSW favour too.

Personally i reckon if I was a NSWman if I had any complaint it'd be against the video ref, and I'd be trying to get the former NSW 18th man appointed for game 2.

Of course there are probably more that I welcome you to add, given I acknowledge that I usually only remember the calls that go against my team. I just don't see how people can say the refs were against NSW. Pretty much every argument I've heard has basically gone "Yeah it was the right call, but that often goes the other way in the NRL". That's not a great argument, and also makes no sense. Of course the refs make more bad calls in the NRL because instead of having 2 of the best refs, you might have the 15th and 16th best refs making the calls. That's why those guys were selected. It'd be like saying QLD were lucky to win because Boyd had a good game, and in the NRL Will Zillman might not have made the same plays from fullback.

Ive only seen the game once, and cant remember many off the top of my head.

1. Its more the calls they didnt make - NSW were attacking the line for so long and I remember saying a few times that 2/3 tackles in a row should have been penalties for holding down - or - they would have been in an NRL game.
2. The Gallen high tackle - not even a 50/50 IMO - shouldnt have been a penalty - and 2 points was the difference between the 2 teams.
3. The gagai play the ball - easy a 50/50
4. The walker one is a 50/50 - both were doing the wrong thing, Walker just did the "more wrong" (moron, get it? eh eh) thing.

The morris try...
well its an interesting one. They showed the initial angle where it looked short, then There was one angle from the other side that looked like the ball was on the line. Then they went back and looked at the initial angle again from other side where it looked short. If the ref called a try, and there was even just 1 angle where it looked like it was on the line then lifted up, which there was IMO - it shouldn't have been turned around.

As I have said many times - there were calls that went both ways that were incorrect or that were no calls, the way its reffed just frustrates the fuck out of me because its so different to a regular NRL game.

If NSW win the match tho I prob never even speak about the reffing lol

Pieman wrote:Ive only seen the game once, and cant remember many off the top of my head.

1. Its more the calls they didnt make - NSW were attacking the line for so long and I remember saying a few times that 2/3 tackles in a row should have been penalties for holding down - or - they would have been in an NRL game.
2. The Gallen high tackle - not even a 50/50 IMO - shouldnt have been a penalty - and 2 points was the difference between the 2 teams.
3. The gagai play the ball - easy a 50/50
4. The walker one is a 50/50 - both were doing the wrong thing, Walker just did the "more wrong" (moron, get it? eh eh) thing.

The morris try...
well its an interesting one. They showed the initial angle where it looked short, then There was one angle from the other side that looked like the ball was on the line. Then they went back and looked at the initial angle again from other side where it looked short. If the ref called a try, and there was even just 1 angle where it looked like it was on the line then lifted up, which there was IMO - it shouldn't have been turned around.

As I have said many times - there were calls that went both ways that were incorrect or that were no calls, the way its reffed just frustrates the fuck out of me because its so different to a regular NRL game.

If NSW win the match tho I prob never even speak about the reffing lol

Haha. I'd be bitching though. Yep the Gallen high tackle was a wrong call plain and simple. When I saw it live I screamed at the TV for a high tackle, but on replay it clearly wasn't, and a ref watching it from straight on should have been able to see that.

My point really was that any complaints should really be targeted as against the video ref rather than the on field refs. I think the over-rule of the Jennings knock on wasn't even that conclusive to be honest. I'm surprised they overturned that in the 35 seconds waiting for the scrum, but didn't overturn the in-goal knock on in the 35 seconds they were waiting for a line drop out.

Its funny how the game can turn out as well and it's all speculation. I had the feeling in the last 15 minutes that even if NSW did score, QLD would score again. Maybe being 2 points behind NSW subconciously played different to if they were 4 points down as well. 4 Points down and you have to go for the try. 2 Points down and maybe you're more likely to play it up the middle rather than attacking the edges so that if you get a penalty you can knock it over easily. Funny game. We'll never know.