NRL Fantasy 2023 Part 56 - Adelaide, home of the dark blues

my tv broke wrote:I know some people have suggested keeping Bird as he is a keeper at centre, but he's already missed one of the last two games, and was subbed after 50 mins in the other. If he's sitting out the next two games, then the bye, i aint hanging around to find out how his minutes will be managed after that.

Yep, can always get him back later on if he drops a few beans and picks back up to 80mins

I can't decide who to get

A centre so I can keep Manu as very competent cover for both WFB and CTR

or, a fullback like Drinky which means I also have to find some CTR cover somewhere (Despite the evidence suggesting this is a good idea, I don't want to buy Drinky)

I think I'm going with option one....It may also allow me to have enough money to upgrade someone to Hynes, maybe

multiple.scoregasms wrote:Origin. I don’t believe this nonsense about Queensland caring more or wanting it more. The majority of Blues players were out there giving it their best but the game plan didn’t work. Laughable suggestion that Teddy’s slip cost the Blues the game. Hammer was through the line with 2 unmarked players inside him. It was a try under the posts regardless of what happened, the slip just changed who scored it.
Where it was lost
Early in the first half Blues had all the territory and possession. With QLD pinned back and plenty of tackles in the red zone the Blues came away from zero points. Sure they came close a few times but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
The momentum swing off the drop out being regathered by QLD. Blues had a few good territory sets leading up to it but that completely shifted. Once the momentum was gone there wasn’t enough time to get it back
Lack of creativity. The Panthers style works because they are a very well drilled club team that will smother you in defense and grind out the point when you make errors. That doesn’t happen at origin level so you can’t rely on it
What worked
Hudson Young early put great pressure on DCE and really had him off his game. His job was to come on, give a few bruises and disrupt the QLD playmakers, which I thought he did well in his stint. I wouldn’t change this for game 2.
Liam Martin off the bench. Came on and caused havoc with no regard for his body. Was the Blues best player so I don’t think you can change this role.
Crichton at centre was solid defensively and created a few half chances chasing kicks. Wasn’t a fan of the selection (thought it should have been Burton) but he really stood up and got the job done.
What I would change
First I would start with the overall play style of the team. Using the 13 as the point of attack is too slow to break down a team full of rep players and needs an overhaul. I’d be aiming for flat and fast attack at the advantage line. The aim is to generate quick play the balls through the middle before hitting the edges against a retreating defense rather than the current style of trying to “freeze” the middle defense through ball playing and second phase.
How do we achieve this? We pick players that fit what we are trying to achieve rather than picking on talent and we give the keys to two of my favourite players, Cam Murray and Damien Cook. They would line up like this
1. Teddy
2. To’o
3. Latrell
4. Campbell Graham
5. Addo-Carr
6. Luai
7. Cleary
8. Haas
9. Cook
10. Paulo
11. Frizell
12. Young
13. Murray
14. Koroisau
15. Martin
16. Yeo
17. Klemmer
With Yeo playing off the bench this allows NSW to start the game fast with Cook, Cleary, Teddy running off quick play the balls generated in the engine room. Front foot ball in turn gives more space to the backs out wide which lets them go to work. Later in the game once things slow down Yeo + Koroisau can come on to add a bit of spark around the ruck once the line speed has dropped off and you actually have time for ball playing. Klemmer would be told he gets around 30 minutes in a tearaway role rather than the work horse he has turned into

What Freddie will do
Changes around the edges that don’t actually mean much. Latrell comes in for Crichton, Luai gets dropped for Hynes to 6, Cook to 14 (despite playing a better game than Cleary) and TPJ out for Saifiti. Run it back and struggle to score points again at Suncorp

MS for Blues coach 2024

The NSW Rabbitohs? You know it's legit because it's coming from MS.

syn13 wrote:

One could argue that has more to do with the QLD spine of immortals retiring, I think it’s fair to say that Freddie has been working with a better side on paper since at least 2019.

Also as a Queenslander, it’s interesting watching Cleary consistently get a pass mark for a level of performance that got Pearce raked over coals.

This is a very good point

I've got Manu, Lem and Alamoti so I'm perfectly happy to sell Bird, more just a case of no one standing out as a screaming buy.

I'm considering Bird -> DEdwards but just not convinced he can keep these numbers up rather than regressing to the mid-40s guy he's been the last few years. Could get Bateman as well as already grabbing iPap this week, but that leaves me with a surplus of R16 edges since I have Luki too.

I might just hang onto him this week and turn him into Moses next week.

How many mins do we think for Liddle? I think 55-60 and at 471k not sure it’s worth it?

Options are looking like him or Turpin.

The Dolphin Conspiracies wrote:

You will regret Suaalii... At CTR he just does not get enough look in

Yeah I'm torn. 30 average at CTR and 35 at WG, so would be hoping he moves back or suddenly hits a purple patch. Manu looking like a 50+ average, but the cash saved would help with some upgrades and bye numbers. Would hopefully get Manu in at some point and stash Suaalii as cover for the rest of the season.

Jele wrote:

This is a very good point

Hmm not sure..

Cleary had an average/below average game for his standards, we all know that.

Cleary has played 5 series prior for two series wins, two losses, and a drawn series.

Prior to last night his origin record is 7 wins 6 losses.

He's also won a couple of comps in a row.

I'm not really a fan on the huge pile on that players get either way, but Pearce situation was way different to Cleary.

Pearce was obviously a scapegoat. He made it easy some times with bonehead plays that fans remembered. Career origin record 6W 13L

125k itb and the issue of host in the team. to trade or not to trade and who to with 530k

Liddle - using bank like watching him, high ceiling. minutes ?? already have cook and grant.

Turpin - YUCK. But value, gives bigger bank roll for similar scores to host most likely better role. again minutes ?? with hutch on the bench. again just yuck but putting personal opinion of him as a player aside does it make too much sense.

Anyone else I'm missing and any suggestions?

mintotheimmortal wrote:125k itb and the issue of host in the team. to trade or not to trade and who to with 530k

Liddle - using bank like watching him, high ceiling. minutes ?? already have cook and grant.

Turpin - YUCK. But value, gives bigger bank roll for similar scores to host most likely better role. again minutes ?? with hutch on the bench. again just yuck but putting personal opinion of him as a player aside does it make too much sense.

Anyone else I'm missing and any suggestions?

I'd probably go Liddle personally, but other names to consider:

- Tatola: still underpriced if you want safe ~40s
- Kiraz: if you're feeling risky
- Sitili: well underpriced on his starting EDG numbers if you think he keeps starting

mintotheimmortal wrote:125k itb and the issue of host in the team. to trade or not to trade and who to with 530k

Liddle - using bank like watching him, high ceiling. minutes ?? already have cook and grant.

Turpin - YUCK. But value, gives bigger bank roll for similar scores to host most likely better role. again minutes ?? with hutch on the bench. again just yuck but putting personal opinion of him as a player aside does it make too much sense.

Anyone else I'm missing and any suggestions?

I have the same dilemma on Turpin or Liddle.

Liddle might only get 55-60mins with Sullivan in the team is this enough? Liddle looked so gassed playing 72mins last week don’t think that keeps up.

Rabbits21 wrote:
I have the same dilemma on Turpin or Liddle.

Liddle might only get 55-60mins with Sullivan in the team is this enough? Liddle looked so gassed playing 72mins last week don’t think that keeps up.

Still averages around 46 across career in 60 mins

Community team trade poll

https://www.nrlfantasyfanatics.com/t2226-r14-trade-poll

Rabbits21 wrote:
I have the same dilemma on Turpin or Liddle.

Liddle might only get 55-60mins with Sullivan in the team is this enough? Liddle looked so gassed playing 72mins last week don’t think that keeps up.

Liddle > Turpin

Chewie wrote:
Liddle > Turpin

Main advantage of Turpin is he plays R16, and he is over $100k cheaper

Jele wrote:

The NSW Rabbitohs? You know it's legit because it's coming from MS.

Let's pick ARey as well and get the band back together

my tv broke wrote:

Hmm not sure..

Cleary had an average/below average game for his standards, we all know that.

Cleary has played 5 series prior for two series wins, two losses, and a drawn series.

Prior to last night his origin record is 7 wins 6 losses.

He's also won a couple of comps in a row.

I'm not really a fan on the huge pile on that players get either way, but Pearce situation was way different to Cleary.

Pearce was obviously a scapegoat. He made it easy some times with bonehead plays that fans remembered. Career origin record 6W 13L

The worst held opinion in rugby league is that Mitchell Pearce is single handedly responsible for the Blues Origin struggles over the years. Let's ignore the fact that Pearce had to go against 3 future immortals (Smith, Slater, Thurston) along with 2 of the best to ever player their position(Inglis and Cronk). Having to work through poor selections in the backs (Nathan Merritt, David Williams Akuila Uate), halves partners that do not fit(Adam Reynolds, Trent Hodkinson) and worst of all terrible forwards. After diving a little deeper it's easy to see why Pearce was never able to get a fair bite at the cherry. Year after year, game after game he was dished up terrible forward packs and mismanaged benches(2 utilities!). As everyone knows the battle is won in trenches, so let's have a look at the packs Pearce has seen and how many were "Origin quality"

2008 Game 3 – Result loss 0/1
With the series tied at 1 all, Pearce is thrown in to the decider next to his club halves partner Braith Anasta due to injuries. Naming a fullback on the bench is a head scratcher that leaves the Blue pack chasing a Queensland pack led by the ever reliable prop duo Steve Price and Petero Civoniceva.

8.Ben Cross
9.Danny Buderus
10.Brett White
11.Ryan Hoffman
12.Craig Fitzgibbon
13.Paul Gallen
14.Anthony Laffranchi
15.Anthony Tupou
16.Willie Mason
17. Brett Stewart

2010 Game 2 – Result loss 0/2
Down 1-0 in the series, Pearce was handed a pack with little impact. Weyman & White were more known as toilers than for impact and post contact metres. Nathan Hindmarsh hadn’t bent the line for a quick play the ball in 5 years and Ben Creagh was nothing more than a glorified decoy runner who disappeared when the tough work was needed. Up against a Maroons pack featuring the two form props of the competition, Matt Scott and David Shillington, the Blues had no chance

8.Michael Weyman
9.Michael Ennis
10.Brett White
11.Nathan Hindmarsh
12.Ben Creagh
13.Paul Gallen
14.Kurt Gidley
15.Tom Learoyd-Lars
16.Trent Waterhouse
17.Luke O’Donnell

2010 Game 3 – Result loss 0/3
Down 2-0 in the series facing a clean sweep at home the Blues named 6 debutants including 4 in the engine room. While this was one of the best back rows Pearce played with, the return of Petero Civoniceva meant the 3 best props on the field were all wearing Maroon.

8.Jason King
9.Michael Ennis
10.Kade Snowden
11.Luke Lewis
12.Paul Gallen
13.Greg Bird
14.Kurt Gidley
15.Tom Learoyd-Lars
16.Tim Mannah
17.Anthony Watmough

Game 1 2011 – Result loss 0/4
Staring down the barrel of 6 straight series losses the Blues wanted to try something different. They did this by picking players from strong club teams, despite those players not being responsible for their club team being good. Dean Young, Beau Scott, Ben Creagh, Trent Merrin among 7 Dragons chosen. Once again Queensland led by the 2 best props in Matt Scott & Petero Civoniceva ran riot against the soft NSW middle

8.Jason King
9.Dean Young
10.Kade Snowden
11.Beau Scott
12.Greg Bird
13.Paul Gallen
14.Michael Ennis
15.Ben Creagh
16.Trent Merrin
17.Tim Mannah

Game 2 2011 – Result win 1/5

Down 1-0, in an attempt to correct some of the mistakes from last game Dean Young was dropped out from the Dragons contingent. Quality defence held the Maroons to their lowest score since 2007. The toiling Jason King & Kade Snowden were replaced in a look to a new approach. The Blues targeted speed and footwork with the selections of Watmough & Lewis off the bench.

8.Tim Mannah
9.Michael Ennis
10.Paul Gallen
11.Beau Scott
12.Ben Creagh
13.Greg Bird
14.Kurt Gidley
15.Anthony Watmough
16.Trent Merrin
17.Luke Lewis

Game 3 2011 – Result loss 1/6

With the series tied at 1-1, injuries struck with the Blues forced to name a 20 man squad. Another toiler in Keith Galloway was selected to replace the impact of Trent Merrin. An underdone Glenn Stewart took the field and struggled in defence.

8.Tim Mannah
9.Michael Ennis
10.Paul Gallen
11.Glenn Stewart
12.Ben Creagh
13.Greg Bird
14.Kurt Gidley
15.Anthony Watmough
16.Keith Galloway
17.Luke Lewis

2012 Game 1 – Result loss 1/7

The shock selection of Jamie Buhrer, who had less than 50 first grade games to his name was compounded by a bench lacking impact. Ground hog day for the Blues as a prop rotation of Matt Scott, Petero Civoniceva, Ben Hannant and David Shillington dominated the middle 3rd of the field.

8.Paul Gallen
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Luke Lewis
12.Glenn Stewart
13.Greg Bird
14.Trent Merrin
15.Jamie Buhrer
16.Ben Creagh
17.Tony Williams

2012 Game 2 – Result win 2/8

Down 1-0, a reshuffle saw Greg Bird and Paul Gallen return to their preferred positions. Origin stalwart Anthony Watmough replaced Jamie Buhrer on the bench where he was joined by Luke Lewis, bringing some much needed impact. The Blues second half speed around the ruck, led by Lewis and Watmough, was too much for the Maroons to handle.

8.Tim Grant
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Greg Bird
12.Glenn Stewart
13.Paul Gallen
14.Trent Merrin
15.Luke Lewis
16.Ben Creagh
17.Anthony Watmough

2012 Game 3 – Result loss 2/9

With the series tied at 1-1, injuries forced changes for both sides. Corey Parker took the starting lock role for the Maroons to add an extra dimension previously lacking. A hard fought game saw the Maroons snatch a 1 point lead with 6 minutes remaining.

8.Tim Grant
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Greg Bird
12.Beau Scott
13.Paul Gallen
14.Tony Williams
15.Luke Lewis
16.Ben Creagh
17.Anthony Watmough

2013 Game 1 – Result win 3/10

A change of coach saw 4 debutants, including Fifita and Reynolds on the bench. With the retirement of Petero Civoniceva, the Blues had a chance to take control of the middle. A quick start saw the Blues score 14 unanswered in the first half and never relinquish the lead.

8.Paul Gallen
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Luke Lewis
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Greg Bird
14.Andrew Fifita
15.Trent Merrin
16.Josh Reynolds
17.Anthony Watmough

2013 Game 2 – Result loss 3/11

After leading the series for the first time since 2008, the Blues handed a debut to Nathan Merritt on the wing. With 3 of Queensland’s 4 tries scored on Merritt’s side of the field this loss cannot be attributed to the forward pack.

8.Paul Gallen
9.Robbie Farah
10.Aaron Woods
11.Luke Lewis
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Greg Bird
14.Andrew Fifita
15.Trent Merrin
16.Josh Reynolds
17.Anthony Watmough

2013 Game 3 – Result loss 3/12

Going into another decider, the Blues lost inspirational captain Paul Gallen which forced Greg Bird out of his preferred position. Another hard fought game resulting in a 2 point loss.

8.Aaron Woods
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Luke Lewis
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Greg Bird
14.Andrew Fifita
15.Trent Merrin
16.Boyd Cordner
17.Anthony Watmough

2015 Game 1 – Result loss 3/13

Despite a shift out of his preferred halfback position, Mitchell Pearce was back in the Origin arena. Up against a Queensland pack led by the two best forwards in the world Corey Parker and Matt Scott, the Blues fought for another 1 point loss courtesy of a Cooper Cronk field goal.

8.Aaron Woods
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Beau Scott
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Josh Jackson
14.Trent Merrin
15.Boyd Cordner
16.David Klemmer
17.Andrew Fifita

2015 Game 2 – Result win 4/14

The return of inspirational skipper Paul Gallen saw Josh Jackson move to the bench and Andrew Fifita drop out. The Blues scraped to an 8 point lead, levelling the series at 1-1

8.Aaron Woods
9.Robbie Farah
10.James Tamou
11.Beau Scott
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Paul Gallen
14.Trent Merrin
15.Boyd Cordner
16.David Klemmer
17.Josh Jackson

2015 Game 3 – Result loss 4/15

Another decider, another loss. The late withdrawal of Robbie Farah threw the Blues into disarray, but no one expected a massacre of this nature. A 52-6 victory saw Queensland break the record for highest winning margin in Origin history

8.Aaron Woods
9.Michael Ennis
10.James Tamou
11.Beau Scott
12.Ryan Hoffman
13.Paul Gallen
14.Trent Merrin
15.Boyd Cordner
16.David Klemmer
17.Josh Jackson

2017 Game 1 – Result 5/16

The best team Pearce has played with so far in his lengthy Origin career. Up against an inexperienced Maroons pack led by Josh Papalii and Josh McGuire, the Blues carved out a dominant win. For the first time in many years the Queensland side was missing many of their champions and looked beatable.

8.Aaron Woods
9.Nathan Peats
10.Andrew Fifita
11.Boyd Cordner
12.Josh Jackson
13.Tyson Frizell
14.David Klemmer
15.Wade Graham
16.Jake Trbojevic
17.Jack Bird

2017 Game 2 – Result loss 5/17

An unchanged Blues team took on the new breed of Maroons, with debuts handed to Jarrod Wallace, Coen Hess and Tim Glasby in the pack. With plenty of bench impact, a rampaging performance from Josh Papalii saw Queensland get the win courtesy of a 78th minute penalty goal.

8.Aaron Woods
9.Nathan Peats
10.Andrew Fifita
11.Boyd Cordner
12.Josh Jackson
13.Tyson Frizell
14.David Klemmer
15.Wade Graham
16.Jake Trbojevic
17.Jack Bird

2017 Game 3 – Result loss 5/18

Going into another decider with the series tied at 1-1, an embarrassing performance from Aaron Woods and Nathan Peats saw their papers stamped never to play again. In a combined 107 minutes the pair combined for 10 runs for 80 metres without a single attacking stat.

8.Aaron Woods
9.Nathan Peats
10.Andrew Fifita
11.Boyd Cordner
12.Josh Jackson
13.Tyson Frizell
14.David Klemmer
15.Wade Graham
16.Jake Trbojevic
17.Jack Bird

2019 Game 3 – Result win 6/19

Pearce was brought into the fold amongst the best forward pack he played with during his origin career. Impact forwards Saifiti, Klemmer and Vaughan led the way up front. Dynamic ball running from Cordner, Frizell, Murray and Graham probed the way in attack. No nonsense ruck defence from Trbojevic and Finucane left very little room for Queensland attack. Cook was the best number 9 Pearce played with since his debut.

8.Daniel Saifiti
9.Damien Cook
10.David Klemmer
11.Boyd Cordner
12.Tyson Frizell
13.Jake Trbojevic
14.Paul Vaughan
15.Dale Finucane
16.Cameron Murray
17.Wade Graham

Milchcow wrote:

Main advantage of Turpin is he plays R16, and he is over $100k cheaper

Liddle = 184cm, 91kg
Turpin = 178cm, 86kg

Liddle is bigger than Turpin

Chewie wrote:

Liddle = 184cm, 91kg
Turpin = 178cm, 86kg

Liddle is bigger than Turpin

Huh, I he's not as Liddle as I thought.

Milchcow wrote:

Main advantage of Turpin is he plays R16, and he is over $100k cheaper

Surely at the moment you take the Round 16 points and the 100k in the bank. 

When you sort their stats by minutes (40+, 50+) at hooker you get these numbers

Liddle 40+: 63 for 48 points
Liddle 50+: 66 for 50 points

Turpin 40+: 64 for 43 points
Turpin 50+: 68 for 46 points

When you go 60+ minutes their averages meet each other at 52 although Liddle averages 6 more minutes of game time.

Not sure he’s worth an extra 100k and sitting out Round 16

Thanks for the great read Multiple Scoregasms. Great name by the way as well.