Round 14 Match Thread

Pieman wrote:No, its ultimately a pass.

He does it in the motion of passing, thats why its a forward pass. Its essentially the same thing as winding up to throw a pass and it slips out of your hands and goes forward. In this case, he's winding up the pass, it hasnt left his right hand yet, the other hand hits it, he loses it and it goes forward it then travels forward, a fair way too, then he regathers it on the other side of the defensive line and they score.

He even reacts and tips it up - which is a deliberate tap over the line

Dip wrote:If that is not a pass, whenever something goes to the video ref to check a try, then I never again want to hear the commentators say something like "they can't rule on a forward pass so it'll only be disallowed if they rule he lost it rather than passed it". To me that's as much of a pass as anything. He had the ball in two hands, passed it with two hand (I don't think it's arguable that he wasn't throwing a pass), and I don't think the left hand came off the ball then later hit the ball (which I guess could fall under the knock on provisions).

There's been a zillion times when we've all gone "yeah it's gone forward but he was trying to pass it so they can't rule on that so stiff shit".

I don't have a problem that the video ref has done the wrong thing, because as mentioned above, the video ref can't rule on a forward pass (I think that's a shit rule, but it's the rule none the less), I just don't see how they can say it was a knock on.

Oz Sport Mad wrote:

They didn't say it was a knock on.

It was a fumble/regather wasn't it??

A pass needs to be to another player (by the letter of the law) and as I said above that is the delineation point for mine, it was fumbled before it became a pass (i.e. to another player).

The only grey area would be whether it was deliberate or not and I think that is fairly clear.

leaguegod wrote:Archer confirms ruling was 100% correct

Dip wrote:If that is not a pass, whenever something goes to the video ref to check a try, then I never again want to hear the commentators say something like "they can't rule on a forward pass so it'll only be disallowed if they rule he lost it rather than passed it". To me that's as much of a pass as anything. He had the ball in two hands, passed it with two hand (I don't think it's arguable that he wasn't throwing a pass), and I don't think the left hand came off the ball then later hit the ball (which I guess could fall under the knock on provisions).

There's been a zillion times when we've all gone "yeah it's gone forward but he was trying to pass it so they can't rule on that so stiff shit".

I don't have a problem that the video ref has done the wrong thing, because as mentioned above, the video ref can't rule on a forward pass (I think that's a shit rule, but it's the rule none the less), I just don't see how they can say it was a knock on.

Pieman wrote:

They didnt say it was a knock on. They said it wasnt a knock on because it didnt hit anyone.

It was in the motion of passing, it was a forward pass to himself over the line of the defence - its an unintentional dally messenger

Pieman wrote:and this brings me back to - just because its unintentional doesn't mean its play on - my very first comment on it. Well done!

Pieman wrote:and this brings me back to - just because its unintentional doesn't mean its play on - my very first comment on it. Well done!

leaguegod wrote:Archer confirms ruling was 100% correct

Milchcow wrote:

This argument from the refs shits me to tears.

Sure, if you follow the letter of the law you can say it's play on (even then that assumes the knock on isn't from the same motion of passing which I disagree with)

But if you go that route, there should be about 100 penalties a game if we go by the letter of the law.
Why pick that one to defend, and ignore the numerous illegal play the balls, offsides, foul play etc that every one gets away with nearly every game

Honeysett wrote:

Because we want to distance ourselves from Union.

Dip wrote:

You are right that by definition a pass is (straight out of the rule book):

PASS is a throw of the ball from one player to another.

But by the same token, when looking at the rules regarding knock on and forward passes (there is no such thing as a fumble in the rule book):

SECTION 10
KNOCK-ON AND FORWARD PASS
Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks
on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player
knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it
touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an
opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed.
Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be
formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a
knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

Then according to that, there is no provision that the following are knock on's or forward passes:
1. The Dally messenger rule of passing over an oponent - since you don't pass to another person; or
2. If you drop the ball forward, it bounces off a team-mate and you regather before it hits the ground, opponent or cross bar.

Now both of those are called, so I think it's more about interpretation of rules. The actual rule book isn't that big and doesn't cover lots of things.

I think everyone agrees it wasn't deliberate, just unco.

Milchcow wrote:

We want to distance ourselves from union by allowing Tony Williams to profit from his error?

Honeysett wrote:

Yes it does. 100% what it means. That's why I couldn't understand your argument.

Milchcow wrote:

This  argument from the refs shits me to tears.

Sure,  if you follow the letter of the law you can say it's play on (even then that assumes the knock on isn't from the same motion of passing which I disagree with)

But if you go that route,  there should be about 100 penalties a game if we go by the letter of the law.
Why pick that one to defend,  and ignore the numerous illegal play the balls,  offsides,  foul play etc that every one gets away with nearly every game