NRL Fantasy 2024 Part 3 - Half the height we want

lukeayee wrote:Is there anywhere to get stats from the trial games that isn't in the super expensive SC package.

Thanks.

NRL.com match centre

eg
https://www.nrl.com/draw/pre-season-trials/2024/round-1/dolphins-v-titans/

Doesn't have minutes played, so you have to work that out yourself

multiple.scoregasms wrote:

Appreciate a more user friendly way to view this.

Liam Henry is such a MattNZ player I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of him

He was talking him up a few weeks ago I believe. Not being base price makes it pretty iffy.

Milchcow wrote:

NRL.com match centre

eg
https://www.nrl.com/draw/pre-season-trials/2024/round-1/dolphins-v-titans/

Doesn't have minutes played, so you have to work that out yourself

Cheers, going to take some work to make it all useful. Better than nothing!

Mulvy wrote:

He was talking him up a few weeks ago I believe. Not being base price makes it pretty iffy.

Yeah, new Hopgood.

Which led to the zinger by someone that he’ll play a lot of NSW Cup then have to move to Parra

mattnz wrote:

That would be awesome to have that available, the way they only show some players on those sites is so annoying

You should start seeing the scores coming through as the scraper grabs everything. Currently up to NSW Cup 2020 Round 8, will get it going on QLD Cup next.

I've just got fantasy points displaying for the minute, but have all the data stored and will expand it out as I go.

An efficient and useful price system should provide fantasy players with the signals they need to buy or sell footy playing assets.

The scoring determined price system as it currently stands is obviously entirely unsuitable by the way it treats DNP.

Player who plays 1 minute and score zero faces a price penalty whereas a player who scores zero minutes and scores zero does not.

This leads to oddities like players who've played only one game per season coming back in at a high price point and not offering value and not giving an incentive to bring them in. It can also lead fantasy players to hold on for too long a time to assets who will not play simply because they don't depreciate.

But worse still It means the price signal is broken to the point of meaninglessness. A formerly gun prop out for 4 weeks with a knee injury should be expected to come back scoring at a lower level, ditto  a fullback with a dodgy hamstring.

To remedy this awkward state of affairs, I propose that DNP=NULL is replaced by a score 50% of that at which the player is priced. For instance, a player priced at 40 points per game would, should they be away for a week with HIA, be awarded 20 points for the game they missed.

This would incentivise far greater trading activity, and so we would also need to increase the number of trades. But this much higher degree of engagement would lead to better outcomes for enthused fantasy players who understand how different injuries would would impact different players. And remove the bonus less engaged players get for simply always holding Cleary.

It also would change the mad rush for base price cows, into a staged sensible rush throughout the year. Looking at players who are coming back from injury. We wouldn't all be obsessing over some unproven 19-year-old fullback, but instead cheering for turbos legs to actually get better faster.

We shall call this Jimmy's rule, and it should be implemented forthwith.

L-Jimmy wrote:An efficient and useful price system should provide fantasy players with the signals they need to buy or sell footy playing assets.

The scoring determined price system as it currently stands is obviously entirely unsuitable by the way it treats DNP.

Player who plays 1 minute and score zero faces a price penalty whereas a player who scores zero minutes and scores zero does not.

This leads to oddities like players who've played only one game per season coming back in at a high price point and not offering value and not giving an incentive to bring them in. It can also lead fantasy players to hold on for too long a time to assets who will not play simply because they don't depreciate.

But worse still It means the price signal is broken to the point of meaninglessness. A formerly gun prop out for 4 weeks with a knee injury should be expected to come back scoring at a lower level, ditto  a fullback with a dodgy hamstring.

To remedy this awkward state of affairs, I propose that DNP=NULL is replaced by a score 50% of that at which the player is priced. For instance, a player priced at 40 points per game would, should they be away for a week with HIA, be awarded 20 points for the game they missed.

This would incentivise far greater trading activity, and so we would also need to increase the number of trades. But this much higher degree of engagement would lead to better outcomes for enthused fantasy players who understand how different injuries would would impact different players. And remove the bonus less engaged players get for simply always holding Cleary.

It also would change the mad rush for base price cows, into a staged sensible rush throughout the year. Looking at players who are coming back from injury. We wouldn't all be obsessing over some unproven 19-year-old fullback, but instead cheering for turbos legs to actually get better faster.

We shall call this Jimmy's rule, and it should be implemented forthwith.

The scoring based price system is still miles better than the “transfer/popularity based” price changes of FPL

Camo123 wrote:

The scoring based price system is still miles better than the “transfer/popularity based” price changes of FPL

yes yes yes murder is less bad than genocide, but we still think that it is less than ideal and should act accordingly.

I'm wondering if anyone has any arguments against Kikau having a bounce back? Last year was heavily injury effected and there is seemingly 8 points of value there if he can go back to 2022 numbers? Do we think he won't get the minutes?

multiple.scoregasms wrote:Pretending Mamouzelos is first grade standard was funny for a while but surely it has to stop. Would comfortably be the worst player in the NRL if he got a bench spot

You've still got no idea it seems. Brandon Smith makes Mamo look like Cameron Smith. Roosters will finish 14th with a good year.

Camo123 wrote:

The scoring based price system is still miles better than the “transfer/popularity based” price changes of FPL

FPL - let’s make a ridiculously simple scoring system

Also FPL - let’s make a hidden pricing algorithm based on player transfers so complicated nobody can accurately reverse engineer it to predict price rises and falls.

L-Jimmy wrote:An efficient and useful price system should provide fantasy players with the signals they need to buy or sell footy playing assets.

The scoring determined price system as it currently stands is obviously entirely unsuitable by the way it treats DNP.

Player who plays 1 minute and score zero faces a price penalty whereas a player who scores zero minutes and scores zero does not.

This leads to oddities like players who've played only one game per season coming back in at a high price point and not offering value and not giving an incentive to bring them in. It can also lead fantasy players to hold on for too long a time to assets who will not play simply because they don't depreciate.

But worse still It means the price signal is broken to the point of meaninglessness. A formerly gun prop out for 4 weeks with a knee injury should be expected to come back scoring at a lower level, ditto  a fullback with a dodgy hamstring.

To remedy this awkward state of affairs, I propose that DNP=NULL is replaced by a score 50% of that at which the player is priced. For instance, a player priced at 40 points per game would, should they be away for a week with HIA, be awarded 20 points for the game they missed.

This would incentivise far greater trading activity, and so we would also need to increase the number of trades. But this much higher degree of engagement would lead to better outcomes for enthused fantasy players who understand how different injuries would would impact different players. And remove the bonus less engaged players get for simply always holding Cleary.

It also would change the mad rush for base price cows, into a staged sensible rush throughout the year. Looking at players who are coming back from injury. We wouldn't all be obsessing over some unproven 19-year-old fullback, but instead cheering for turbos legs to actually get better faster.

We shall call this Jimmy's rule, and it should be implemented forthwith.

The offseason is over there is no need for shitposting

Super League records its interchanges so you can go through manually and get Smithies minutes that way.

ie. R1 he played the full 80 it seems - https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3779

R2 he came off at 26 minutes and came back on at 53 - https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3783

R3 he came off at 64 and never came back on - https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3789

R4 he played the full 80 - https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3793

NRL Physio saying Young recovery likely takes 3-6 weeks and Piakura 1-3 weeks for minor MCL strain.

robelgordo wrote:

Camo123 wrote:

The scoring based price system is still miles better than the “transfer/popularity based” price changes of FPL

FPL - let’s make a ridiculously simple scoring system

Also FPL - let’s make a hidden pricing algorithm based on player transfers so complicated nobody can accurately reverse engineer it to predict price rises and falls.

Some counter points


FPL has over 10 million users - they can't be making terrible design decisions.

What's wrong with a simple scoring system?
For an example, NRL Fantasy gives points for an "escape from in goal". There is an average of less than 1 of these every NRL game. Nobody can possibly cater for it when planning team selection. And even if you did, the effect it has on your weekly score is close to 0%
What value does it add to the game by having it as a scoring category?


Lets say FPL went down the fantasy scoring route and decided to award points for miscellaneous new stats, including completed passes. It would dramatically change which players are good, akin to fantasy scoring rewarding tackles so heavily so that any old blob who knows how to flop in as 3rd man can be a good fantasy scorer.
If FPL revamped their scoring to include stuff like that, what do you think would happen to its popularity?
Fantasy is better if its more than just tries+goals but you can go overboard the other direction by trying to make almost every action on the field result in some sort of fantasy output

Also there are plenty of fan sites that can predict FPL changes to roughly the same accuracy that we can predict weekly price changes - is that

I am also somewhat surprised that NRL Fantasy doesn't include daily price changes as part of the pricing. Many of their other decisions (eg looping) seem designed to keep people logged n to the app. Daily changes would certainly increase logon frequency (although for my productivity I'm glad they don't)
(Before they merged with Supercoach, Fox Sports sued to offer a fantasy game that did just that, and I personally loved it, even if there weren't enough of us to keep the format alive)


I also think the idea of only keeping half of your profits is a good one.
I prefer it when the game is more about picking the best scoring players, and not an economic management game that just happens to include NRL games.

Obbeats wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has any arguments against Kikau having a bounce back? Last year was heavily injury effected and there is seemingly 8 points of value there if he can go back to 2022 numbers? Do we think he won't get the minutes?

Kikau was at Panthers in 2022. Has moved from the top scoring team, to the bottom scoring team last season.

He isn't a tackle bot work horse, he is an attacking weapon, that won't be attacking nearly as much for Dogs as he was at Panthers.

Rabbit wrote:

You've still got no idea it seems. Brandon Smith makes Mamo look like Cameron Smith. Roosters will finish 14th with a good year.

Rabbits - Mamo makes 'Backdoor Benny' look like 'Frontdoor Benny'

The rabbits would clearly taste better with cheese rather than greek spices

The Dolphin Conspiracies wrote:

Rabbits - Mamo makes 'Backdoor Benny' look like 'Frontdoor Benny'

The rabbits would clearly taste better with cheese rather than greek spices

If I might say....trying to sound clever doesn't really suit you.

When do the League codes come out? I must have missed the league 11 message?

EDIT: Should have checked first. Thanks Cookie monster.

League 9 champion it is.

Milchcow wrote:

Some counter points


FPL has over 10 million users - they can't be making terrible design decisions.

What's wrong with a simple scoring system?
For an example, NRL Fantasy gives points for an "escape from in goal". There is an average of less than 1 of these every NRL game. Nobody can possibly cater for it when planning team selection. And even if you did,  the effect it has on your weekly score is close to 0%
What value does it add to the game by having it as a scoring category?


Lets say FPL went down the fantasy scoring route and decided to award points for miscellaneous new stats, including completed passes. It would dramatically change which players are good, akin to fantasy scoring rewarding tackles so heavily so that any old blob who knows how to flop in as 3rd man can be a good fantasy scorer.
If FPL revamped their scoring to include stuff like that, what do you think would happen to its popularity?
Fantasy is better if its more than just tries+goals but you can go overboard the other direction by trying to make almost every action on the field result in some sort of fantasy output

Also there are plenty of fan sites that can predict FPL changes to roughly the same accuracy that we can predict weekly price changes - is that

I am also somewhat surprised that NRL Fantasy doesn't include daily price changes as part of the pricing. Many of their other decisions (eg looping) seem designed to keep people logged n to the app. Daily changes would certainly increase logon frequency (although for my productivity I'm glad they don't)
(Before they merged with Supercoach, Fox Sports sued to offer a fantasy game that did just that, and I personally loved it, even if there weren't enough of us to keep the format alive)


I also think the idea of only keeping half of your profits is a good one.
I prefer it when the game is more about picking the best scoring players, and not an economic management game that just happens to include NRL games.

Robelgordo was supporting the fact they have simple scoring and then saying they also have convoluted pricing