State of Origin 2017 Series

Oz Sport Mad wrote:

The injury side of it is one thing, but having the pinnacle of our game partway through the season is scheduling idiocy.

Thursto out is massive for the fate of both the Maroons and Cows and if it was indeed his last ever Origin play, then what a way to go out.

Not to mention for Australia in the WC at the end of the year.
Who plays 6? Maloney?

I totally agree, the footy from origin to the finals is fucking generally pretty boring after all the excitement of SOO.
Shorten the season. Put the rep stuff at the end of the year.

State of Origin at the end of the season would kill it off.

For example, Gagai would not have played for minimum like 6 weeks and be expected to be Origin fit. The games themselves would be horrible.

I much prefer Origin football to the regular season, even when Newcastle were competitive. There's no better games than Origin.

I reckon it is cheapened by having it end of year, but something has to change beyond having stand alone weekends.

Personally I think it should be played on 3 consecutive Wednesdays. The 4 weekends from immediately before to immediately after origin don't have the origin players. Each of those 4 weekends have 4 matches (16 games in total), so each team has 1 away match, 1 home match, and two byes in that period. Clubs would be encouraged to take their home match to the bush or to Perth/Darwin/Wellington etc during that period, as they might not have had a big home crowd anyway, and both teams have to spend a few days there doing promotion work as well as their game.

The origin teams each pick a squad of say 25 at the start of the origin series (which can be changed due to injury). If a player won't be picked for origin, they can be released for a club game before origin, but at least clubs have some certainty about the squad they have remaining, and it only affects 2 games instead of the current 6.

I like the build up to having origin 3 weeks apart, but the collateral damage to club football is too much. So far 10 players out of 34 have been ruled out for this weekend's matches. That's rediculous. Roosters are trying to promote the game in Adelaide, and now they will be doing it without the NSW captain, Australian and QLD Captain, and Australian fullback, halfback and centre. Good luck with that.

P.S., as a Broncos fan, thanks Bellamy for resting your 4 best players so they're right to play the Broncos next Friday. Thanks a million.

I'm not sure your point and your logic match up there Dip. Wouldn't there be more injuries playing 3 origin games in a row? That'd be fucking tough. Not to mention the time away from family aspect of it as well. It's fine the way it is. It's a brutal game and it's getting tougher but the rewards from that are better players. JT has become a better player as a result of years of Origin, the result is they've won a premiership.

Pieman wrote:

Not to mention for Australia in the WC at the end of the year.
Who plays 6? Maloney?

I totally agree, the footy from origin to the finals is fucking generally pretty boring after all the excitement of SOO.
Shorten the season. Put the rep stuff at the end of the year.

Yeah forgot about the WC.

Pearce the obvious replacement....

Honeysett wrote:State of Origin at the end of the season would kill it off.

For example, Gagai would not have played for minimum like 6 weeks and be expected to be Origin fit. The games themselves would be horrible.

I much prefer Origin football to the regular season, even when Newcastle were competitive. There's no better games than Origin.

My scheduling gripe is also largely driven by my utter disappointment about how the international games have fizzled.

That should be the pinnacle for the players and it isn't because it has become a token mid-year match and an afterthought when all the best players have withdrawn.
It honestly bugs me more than anything in the game.....yep even the media and token suspensions.

Pieman wrote:Cleary has a better kicking game than Pearce.

Except the stats don't support that argument.

Pearce has more kick metres/game then anybody in the league
The only cockroach half to kick more field goals is Maloney
The only cockroach half to force more repeat sets is ARey
The only cockroach half with more try assists is Sezer
The only cockroach half with more line break assists is Moylan

Sure, Cleary has a good bomb on him. Which is fine in a club game when you can rely on at least one of the opposition back 3 being a gumby and Cleary can target him. That doesnt cut it at Origin level. Whose he going to target? Slater/Holmes/Gagai/Oates? Sweet.

You didnt lose Game 2 because of Pearce. You lost it because Loz is a shit coach and your forwards turned into pussy cats when Moose and Napa came off the bench in the 2nd half.

Honeysett wrote:State of Origin at the end of the season would kill it off.

For example, Gagai would not have played for minimum like 6 weeks and be expected to be Origin fit. The games themselves would be horrible.

I much prefer Origin football to the regular season, even when Newcastle were competitive. There's no better games than Origin.

Also I don't think Origin would suffer, it is far too ingrained in the general public as a spectacle now.

That is assuming the NRL grow some testicles and realise that their product will still be as valuable (in a competitive tv rights market) if they were to shorten the NRL season (not necessarily the overall season) and promote the rep season as the season culmination like it should be.

Gagai and others that don't make the finals really should be professional enough and managed (i.e. straight into Maroons/Blues squad training) so that they don't get rusty but worse case we could always organise some regional exhibition matches during the finals.

Oz Sport Mad wrote:

Also I don't think Origin would suffer, it is far too ingrained in the general public as a spectacle now.

That is assuming the NRL grow some testicles and realise that their product will still be as valuable (in a competitive tv rights market) if they were to shorten the NRL season (not necessarily the overall season) and promote the rep season as the season culmination like it should be.

Gagai and others that don't make the finals really should be professional enough and managed (i.e. straight into Maroons/Blues squad training) so that they don't get rusty but worse case we could always organise some regional exhibition matches during the finals.

PMs XI could play a proper tour instead of beat up on PNG.

ryno_ wrote:

Except the stats don't support that argument.

Pearce has more kick metres/game then anybody in the league
The only cockroach half to kick more field goals is Maloney
The only cockroach half to force more repeat sets is ARey
The only cockroach half with more try assists is Sezer
The only cockroach half with more line break assists is Moylan

Sure, Cleary has a good bomb on him. Which is fine in a club game when you can rely on at least one of the opposition back 3 being a gumby and Cleary can target him. That doesnt cut it at Origin level. Whose he going to target? Slater/Holmes/Gagai/Oates? Sweet.

You didnt lose Game 2 because of Pearce. You lost it because Loz is a shit coach and your forwards turned into pussy cats when Moose and Napa came off the bench in the 2nd half.

Cleary has definitely got a decent bomb on him as evidenced by the way he tormented Braidon Burns earlier this season (which I am assuming is all the evidence Pieman is going off).

Doesn't mean much though when (as you have suggested) the likes of Burns are not on the receiving end and the kick pressure in Origin is 50x that of a club game.

Pieman logic strikes again.

Honeysett wrote:I'm not sure your point and your logic match up there Dip. Wouldn't there be more injuries playing 3 origin games in a row? That'd be fucking tough. Not to mention the time away from family aspect of it as well. It's fine the way it is. It's a brutal game and it's getting tougher but the rewards from that are better players. JT has become a better player as a result of years of Origin, the result is they've won a premiership.

I suspect (and it's only a theory), that 10 players have pulled out because games are 2-4 days after Origin, not so much because of the toughness of the games. I suspect 7 days is enough other than for long term injuries that would rule them out anyway. That's what I'm always told about my Broncos anyway.

Family aspect is definitely an issue as well, but you could still have a couple of days off each week. The Origin revenue should also cover flying family up and putting up their accomodation if their families wanted to come for all or part of it as well.

Surely players want to play for their country more than their state. Look at the withdrawals from 4 nations tours then consider if Origin would be the same draw card with the same withdrawals.

Honeysett wrote:Thurston ruled out for the season. Makes what he did in that game even more courageous. Taking 5 minutes to slot a conversation so he could catch his breath

Slightly off origin topic, and I know he plans to play next season, but if he doesn't and that's it, thanks for the memories JT. Even the ones that broke my heart like the field goal in the 2015 GF, it was a pleasure to watch you play. Finishing on 299 NRL games would be almost Bradman average like in it's unfair beauty.

Also if NSW don't win this year with QLD missing the best prop in the game for the series, the best centre in the game for the series, the best player in the game for 2 matches, and the Australian fullback for the decider, they will be in the foetal position crying until they next get a chance to win.

Dip wrote:Surely players want to play for their country more than their state. Look at the withdrawals from 4 nations tours then consider if Origin would be the same draw card with the same withdrawals.

I'm sure you know full well that isn't the case and that is exactly what I would like to see rectified.

Dip wrote:Also if NSW don't win this year with QLD missing the best prop in the game for the series, the best centre in the game for the series, the best player in the game for 2 matches, and the Australian fullback for the decider, they will be in the foetal position crying until they next get a chance to win.

I actually had to think who you were talking about with best prop such was how laughable it is.

You've still got Slater, Cronk and Smith at home. We'll struggle to overcome one of the greatest ever teams.

Dip wrote:Surely players want to play for their country more than their state. Look at the withdrawals from 4 nations tours then consider if Origin would be the same draw card with the same withdrawals.

The off season is when everyone gets the injuries they have been carrying attended to and that's why they withdraw. It's the club who pays their wages and a premiership is still the pinnacle so state of origin would suffer the same fate

Honeysett wrote:

I actually had to think who you were talking about with best prop such was how laughable it is.

You've still got Slater, Cronk and Smith at home. We'll struggle to overcome one of the greatest ever teams.

Matt Scott has generally been accepted as the best prop in the game the last few seasons, with Bromwich pushing him for that title in the last couple of years (and maybe passing him, but in any event he's not eligible for origin). Fafita has always had potential, but it is only late last season that he really started fulfilling that. At the time Scott got injured, Fafita had never started for NSW or Australia.

I agree we'll still have a good team, but my point is that if NSW lose, they'll almost have the mentality that they can't win until there's some retirements. If for arguments sake Cronk plays another year next year, Inglis returns as good as ever, Smith and Slater decide to go around next year, and JT decides rep footy didn't end the way he wanted to so he'll run around again in origin, then a lot of the NSW team and almost all of their fans might well be thinking "here we go again".

Generally accepted by who? The last couple years he's been on the decline. Which is still great but Bromwich and Graham have surpassed him.

Of course we'd say here we go again, we're up against it facing those champions. Winning anything is tough. Let alone 2/3

Oz Sport Mad wrote:

Cleary has definitely got a decent bomb on him as evidenced by the way he tormented Braidon Burns earlier this season (which I am assuming is all the evidence Pieman is going off).

Doesn't mean much though when (as you have suggested) the likes of Burns are not on the receiving end and the kick pressure in Origin is 50x that of a club game.

Pieman logic strikes again.

Ha.
That 1 game of him doing it to burns is more than I have ever seen pearce do with his kicking. Bombing it from 40 out or what ever like pearce does just doesnt work in origin. It never has, and pearce keeps doing it.

As I said in the post, if you could read, you would have noticed that I said - if the game plan is to bomb it from 40 out, pick the bloke who is the best at that, eg, the bloke with the best bomb. Eg - Cleary.

I also said, it shouldnt be the game plan.