State of Origin 2017 Series

Dip wrote:A pretty good summary of NSW Pieman. You're right about Smith too. He's unbelievable in controlling a game. It was interesting to note that even with Cronk in the team whenever a QLD player was tackled near the edges and Smith didn't get to dummy half, he was first receiver pretty much every time, because make no mistake it is him who controls the team. Munster had one of the best debuts you will ever see in origin, but in my mind it is no doubt Smith was the man of the match. He's the reason, particularly at the start of the game, why we were able to dominate the game like we did. It was an alltime great origin performance IMO, but will probably not be recognised like that.

Dip wrote:Nice attempt at trolling mate, and I understand that you need to still feel relevant after another series loss by calling yourself "big brother" even though you guys winning anything is rarer than unicorn steak.

dasherhalo wrote:Interesting read, post mortem.

A few things occur to me:

1. Didn't see too many NSW supporters worried about the class of the Qld spine after Game 1
2. Cam Smith played out of his skin.
3. Josh McGuire copied the NSW forwards' game plan from game 1. Passed a HELL of a lot.
4. Maloney. I wanted to call "mercy" on that interview. Poor bastard.

Pieman wrote:From a match point of view, it was fucking evident that QLD had more energy and were prepared to do the dirty work. Where as NSW wanted to skill their way around the park. That was clear as day. NSW wont win another series until Cam smith is retired IMO. That guy, and it was obvious, controls the entire speed of the game. He does it in defence with his wrestling and referee manipulation and he does it perfectly. Its a marvel to see. You want smith making 50 tackles a game, because he doesnt tackle someone to try and stop a play, he tackles someone then positions them in a way that will make a slow play the ball and that will slow the ruck down etc etc. He is that fit and that strong and his technique is just so amazing that it doesnt sap his energy too. You dont want peats making 50 tackles a game because he tackles, to tackle. He just tackles because someone runs at him and it exhausts him. Then it limits his decision making and cripples his and the teams attack. Smith's decision making is amazing, never makes the wrong call. He controls it in attack because no one is sure where he is going to pass the ball, or if hes going to kick it or run it or what ever. Everyone is on edge the entire game because no one on defence knows what cam smith is going to do. Then you chuck in some great outside backs, some obedient forwards who roll their sleeves up and a halfback who organises what smith wants - and you have the perfect side. Its honestly brilliant to see and it was a sad day with thurston retiring, but when smith goes - far out thats going to be 1. a big motivator for another series and 2. a sad day for state of origin in general.

Slater is also a game changer, personally I think if he played in game 1 - game three would have been a dead rubber. The fact he wasnt picked in game one is still a fucking farce. Michael Morgan is also one of my fav players. The guy is just a hard worker, strong, talented and skillful player and I am jealous that he plays for QLD and NQ. He is a guy that I would love at newcastle and would be happy if we paid a million for him. He is just that good and comes across as a quality down to earth human too, unlike a lot of these NSW players - who are super talented but come across as unlikeable prima donnas.

The forwards just did the hard work and did it well. Maguire had a brilliant game too. They just weren't taking a backward step, werent trying to offload or ball play much and just played simple had footy.

As far as NSW goes, we picked a more talented team, and that is our problem. We picked a bunch of talented individuals who want to show how talented they are, but they dont want to cop the knocks or do the hard work that wins games. Our prob least talented forwards are Frizzel and Klemmer and Jackson. And they are generally NSW best forwards. Friz has been injured since game 1 so he was a bit limited but the other 2 are great. They do the hard work. There is no sideways in them, they just go north and south and do the job. Friz had one bad offload I remember, and he shouldnt have thrown it, and he doesnt usually. Trbo is prob the exception there tho, hes a gun and super talented but doesnt get much of a run in origin, even though he would be one of the hardest workers in the side.

Cordner is just great too. Great captain, has the respect of the opposition and opposition fans and is an excellent hard working talented player. We need more players to play like him - run good lines, hit hard in tackles, dont fucking offload or play out the back, just play good hard up and down footy - and we will win more games. Its as simple as that.

QLD pick a team that is full of guys they enjoy playing with and for. They dont want to let each other down. NSW dont. We pick super talented players and expect their skill will win us games (and it does every now and then) but without the hard working players - the skillful ones like hayne become obsolete.

These guys like Woods, Fifita, Graham all want to offload and ball play and carry blokes in tackles and graham wants to come on and kick and change the game etc. Its bullshit. It doesnt work in origin and it never has and never will. Fifita had a props game for the ages in game 1, but as soon as they figured out to get numbers in tackles and put pressure on him, he was nothing in game 2 and 3. The amount of penalties someone like Graham gives away almost literally lost us game 2 on its own and they are just dumb. I feel like he is better suited to starting the game or not being there at all because the fucking penalties he gives away for stripping the ball in particular - really hurt the team. And because he is a left sided player, he cant take corder's spot, so sorry graham you are gone from my team. Woods shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Tedesco - the guy is a quality player who should be there for the next few series.
Brett Morris, what else can you say about him? He is a gun, gives his all and is a likeable guy. I would be keeping him in the side even though he isnt as fast as he use to be. He should be there until he doesnt want to play origin any more.

Fergo - deadset. Gone. His defence is disgusting and he's a complete fuckwit. Super talented, but he is one of these, looks great when we are winning, looks terrible when we lose guys. Hes gone from my side.

Dugan - he is an interesting one. He seems to have matured over the last few years and was one of NSW best in the series, especially when he went back to FB in game 2. Amazingly talented player and goes up a gear in origin. I would be keeping him I guess.

Hayne - we all know how talented the guy is. Possibly the most talented player in the comp. But fuck. "Big moments player". Fuck off. Thats code for "give me the ball in open space" player or it means "glory hog". Sure, he was the catalyst in 2014, just like he was the catalyst for Parra in 2009. But he isnt that player any more. He doesnt do it for the titans. You dont hear these greats of the game - guys who have actually won something - like slater smith cronk JT - ever be described as "big moments players", because they are "Every moment players". They are always involved. They are getting their teams the victories not waiting to be in a perfect moment to do something. Become an "every moment" player Hayne, not a "big" moment player. To be honest, next year I either 1. Put him at fullback or wing  2. put him on the bench and use him as a roaming player in the middle of the park or 3. leave him out of the side. He comes across unlikeable, a prima donna, a whinger and well, a target for QLD. He is immensely talented and I want to see him doing well in both club land and but he just.. doesnt have it at centre. There is too much rest period out there for him where he is not involved in the game.

The halves, such a contentious topic. Pearce, NSW's whipping boy. Some of it deserved, most of it not. I am one of his harshest critics on here and I can do nothing but feel for the guy now. He tries his dick off in every game. He is the Kurt Gidley of halfbacks. He tries fucking hard, is the fittest, puts his body on the line and is likeable. He is also just not that good at origin level. From where we were sitting, we had a great view of his kicking too. Most went to slater or a winger on the full. He was waiting until the 5th tackle just about every time to kick, which is what the big mistake was. If he kicked on the third or 4th its a totally different game. The wingers were in the line until at least the 4th and even then, generally only 1 drops back because Pearce does most of the kicking. His kicks are just ineffective and it has to be the game plan too - not just pearces fault. They needed to do something different, kick early. Get them on their toes. But nope, it was - wait till the 5th then kick it down the middle to slater. On the full. Honestly, if they just started kicking on the 3rd early in the game, the game plays out totally different. Personally I think NSW actually missed Farah's kicking out of dummy half. I dont understand why Maloney doesnt do more kicking, he has a decent long kicking game and getting him a couple of kicks early takes a bit of the attention off pearce and puts even just a tiny bit of doubt in the mind of the defenders. Its why I think we should pick pearce at hooker. He would do the same job as Peats, and prob better, Defensively he wont let anyone down and it also takes a bit of the pressure off him because he isnt the 7 any more. He is fit enough to do it and he has a kicking game that can be utilised out of dummy half, as well as bringing in a 7 with a good kicking game. It helps the side and changes the whole dynamic of the team because there is now all of a sudden an attacking option out of dummy half.

Maloney - I dont know hey. Good in attack, woeful in defence. Prob unfair if he gets to stay and pearce gets punted. He seems pretty likeable tho, it would come down to whether cordner and the team want to play for him.

Guys who are not in my side for next year are
Fergo, Woods, Peats (did nothing wrong, just offers nothing in attack), Graham.

1. Teddy
2. Morris
3. Bird
4. Dugan
5. Trbo
6. Moylan
7. Maloney
8. Klemmer
9. Pearce
10. Vaughn
11. Cordner
12. Jackson
13. Trbo

14. Hayne
15. Friz
16. Fifita
17. Prob someone like Jack De Bellin or at least a hard working in form forward.

Ice wrote:

Little harsh on Peats I think. It's clearly evident he was told to to get the ball to Pearce, Maloney and Forwards first Andrew foremost and he did that perfectly as well as defended great. For mine, that is on the coach. I'd be saying "Peats, good early service is essential to halves and forwards but you MUST take the line on when you see the chance,  you must keep the, in. Two minds about what you will do, so it's either early service OR, take a run, just don't half commit to a run then pass".

Pieman wrote:
My problem with him (or yes, the game plan) is the NSW is not an attacking option what so ever, and most of that is because he is making so many tackles in the middle. He isnt a very attacking minded player at the best of times but in SOO, and game 3 especially, they might as well have put josh jackson in hooker because he didnt run and didnt offer a single thing in attack.

We need a hooker that can at the very least kick it every now and then. Whether that is the coach/game plan or the player being changed - it needs to happen. When there is only 1 realistic kicking option, they were literally dropping back 1 winger and slater was there.

ryno_ wrote:KANGAROOS MERIT TEAM
Centre: Josh Dugan (NSW, St George Illawarra Dragons)
Wing: James Tedesco (NSW, Wests Tigers)

Well there goes any credibility that idea had.

Ice wrote:

He has the skills to run and attack, he can kick, he was clearly instructed not to do either as Farah did all that stuff and they didn't want him doing it as they gave control of team to Pearce. But you are right, only one option for kicking is not good. I think it's more a coach thing than a Peats thing.It's another reason Hayne, who has a massive kick, is better suited in Origin to fullback, to take pressure of the halves and provide that third option that Teddy doesn't. But let's not forget, we are comparing Peats to Smith, it's an unfair comparison, as you've rightly pointed out, nobody controls every facet of a game like Smith.

ryno_ wrote:KANGAROOS MERIT TEAM
Centre: Josh Dugan (NSW, St George Illawarra Dragons)
Wing: James Tedesco (NSW, Wests Tigers)

Well there goes any credibility that idea had.

Dip wrote:I find it very hard to believe any hooker is instructed by their coach not to run. At pretty much every level of the game starting at mini-mod when they have to wear the bright pink DH bib, hookers are encouraged to run more, not less. It is rare that an NRL level hooker is criticised for it. Isaac Luke was for a little while, but that is about it.

Farah wasn't dropped because he was running too much. He was dropped because he was calling the plays rather than Pearce. There is a huge difference. I can't think of any halfback who wouldn't like their halfback going for a 10-15m quick scoot from dummy half every couple of sets and being able to play off the back of a quick play the ball.

I'm also not going to criticise Peats either though. He'll learn from it and be better for the experience. Unless they do some major stuff ups, you have to go easy on judgment of debutants at any level. It's not their job to win matches for you at any level of the game. You want them to complement the more experienced guys, who should take the responsibility of getting the W. Peats had a good solid debut and will be better next year (along with Teddy, Graham and Bird) - as he will have to be with presumably at least one, and possibly two new halves in the team next year.

Ice wrote:

He has the skills to run and attack, he can kick, he was clearly instructed not to do either as Farah did all that stuff and they didn't want him doing it as they gave control of team to Pearce. But you are right, only one option for kicking is not good. I think it's more a coach thing than a Peats thing.It's another reason Hayne, who has a massive kick, is better suited in Origin to fullback, to take pressure of the halves and provide that third option that Teddy doesn't. But let's not forget, we are comparing Peats to Smith, it's an unfair comparison, as you've rightly pointed out, nobody controls every facet of a game like Smith.

Pieman wrote:

I dont think Ive ever seen Peats have a great attacking game? Tough, yep. Good defence, yep. Crash over for a try, yep. Attacking wise tho, not really, and off the top of my head I cant even ever remember seeing him kick a ball. (I am sure he has but still). Im not comparing peats to smith, im comparing the options and game plan to each other. I think we really missed Farahs kicking from dummy half and a bit of his smarts too. He is past it and def shouldnt be brought back but, honestly, the kicking game is what hurt NSW the most IMO. Even just when they were kicking. Its the halfbacks job to change the plan up a bit if its not working. I dont see why the coach would tell a player not to run. If anything, IMO, he would be encouraging Peats to run. He just didnt get the chance to because NSW forwards got so badly beaten in game 3. In saying that, according to champion data - he didnt run at all in the first game, so maybe its from the coach. I also dont see why he would encourage the hooker to not kick either when its pretty common knowledge that every good hooker these days needs a kicking game. Also, a halfback playing off a quick play the ball on the front foot after a dummy half run is literally exactly what they want to do so I dont think the coach would be telling him not to run. I also like pearce at hooker to offer an attacking threat out of dummy half - a kick especially. Dont get me wrong, peats did nothing wrong what so ever. He just is very very limited in attack.

Yeah mate, Its why I would be tempted to put hayne at 6 next year, but then again he doesnt really have a short kicking game. Lack of that really hurt NSW too. NSW always go better with a big running 6 and hayne is that, plus 6 is a glory position, and we know hayne is all about that glory. I 100% would not be going with Hayne at centre again. He could easily go to FB with Tedesco on the wing but tedesco was fucking brilliant for NSW at fb. But to be fair, Hayne's club form at fb has been woeful for albeit one game or two games since he went to the titans. Deadset, he has been average. Teddy will absolutely kill it at the roosters next year too and will be impossible to leave out of the 1 jersey.
I like hayne from the bench to come on and roam around the middle for 1/3 of a game. It gets him involved, gets him touches and gets him against tired forwards. He covers every back line position for injury and can play the "cronk/dce/morgan role in the middle for short stints.

Woods needs to go. Even on his good hitups, he is carrying guys which just allows the defence to get back in line and get set. Offside isnt policed well either so guys shoot early after woods' hitups and the next player inevitably gets smashed. We need guys like Klemmer starting and playing good minutes, guys who charge into the defence, get a good quick play the ball then do it again.

If the stuff is true about Fifita blowing up and refusing to play from the bench in game 3 - then fuck him off. Dont pick him if he isnt willing to do what is best for the team. Him coming from the bench is perfect in origin. Starting klemmer, who had been the best prop all series and benching fifita was the right call. Loz should have stuck with it and if Fifita didnt want to then he should have punted him all together.

My starting front row next year would be Klemmer and Vaughn. No nonsense, up and down players who dont look to offload who just get quick play the balls and are hard cunts.

NSW problem is we look for the superstar to save us, when we should be looking for the hard worker to build the bridge to get us out of trouble - not the superstar to do a double backflip out of the hole.

Fergo can fuck right off too.

No Worries wrote:Fergo & Duges having an 8hr session on the breezers at Lennox Head sums up the difference in the 2 sides, the rest is just window dressing. We still could have won the series with Woods backing into the defense and carrying Hayne. We did in the first game.